Tim Burton's The Nightmare Before Christmas / The Fudge Detective (Guest: Ben Burris)

Well, here we are it finally happened. You shook, and waited, and Chrtmahweenas (?) has arrived. Guest, and bday boy Ben Burris brought us, a HENRY SELICK FILM, “Tim Burton’s: The Nightmare Before Christmas.” (D. HERNY SELICK people, we cannot stress this enough. 1993) Starring: Chris Sarandon (Jack speaking), Danny Elfman (Jack singing), and Catherine O’Hara (doin’ it all, baby!). Is it good enough for someone to have good intentions, even if they’re making everyone’s existence a living nightmare? Are characters going from A to C or even A to Z more forgivable in shorter films? Is this movie part of your personality? Spoilers 🚨 It isn’t! #hottopic ?! Enjoy this Bday present/X mas gift/Halloween treat from a burrito to you!

**All episodes contain explicit language**
Artwork - Ben McFadden
Review Review Intro/Outro Theme - Jamie Henwood
"What Are We Watching" & "Whatcha been up to?" Themes - Matthew Fosket
"Fun Facts" Theme - Chris Olds/Paul Root
Lead-Ins Edited/Conceptualized by - Ben McFadden
Produced by - Ben McFadden & Paul Root
Concept - Paul Root

Transcript

Want us to just Mortal Kombat Annihilation. We could just have the IMDB podcast where we just Is that what this is? It's kinda like that except we try to be funny. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the review review.

If you are new to the podcast, this is a movie podcast. So if you like movies, you are in the right place. And this is a spooky episode. You are in spooky season, also known as soup season, also known as sweater smash. I gotta focus.

I'm shifting the soup mode. And we're in separate places. Separate incidents. Incidents. Where we take a movie that's at least 7 years old, not part of a major franchise, and we give it a new look, and we come together and discuss and see if our opinions have changed.

And we normally have a guest. And today, that is no different We don't. Because No. We don't have a guest here. We have a family member here.

Vin Diesel. You know the you know the rules of Avid when we have family members here. Family. We treat them like shit. Perfect.

And I wouldn't have it any other way. Then the burrito burris. It's his day episode. Happy birthday to the burrito. Oh, the fanfare.

Guys, thank Yeah. Oh, wait. Here it is. Pew. That's how we do fanfare around here.

And I have to say before we because we know you didn't look up what movie this is before you hit play. No. This was this is now Burrows' 4th round on the pod, technically, I believe. But only his second movie that he's brought? 2nd movie that he's actually chosen.

And, Burris, I have to ask, was part of the reason that you chose this movie is you were batting 0.00000000000000, like, on all your previous What do you what do you mean? I brought you gold. I mean, technically, you were here for many Roadhouse and Exorcist. Technically. Technically.

We've never given him another chance to bring us something. So Right. This time, for his birthday and spooky season, he brought us A Nightmare Before Christmas. So strap in, everyone, because we have probably a longer episode than the movie we watched. Well, one can almost guarantee it.

Hey. If you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But before we talk about the movie we watched, I wanna know what you've been doing. That's a good question.

Thank you. I just thought I just thought of it too. I had this isn't something we normally do. This is really good. But improvisation.

Yes. I can. I don't know. It's it's a you know, you guys know it's a weird time for me, so it's that's just kinda how it is right now and, you know, taking it one day at a time. Been swimming a lot.

That's Oh. Cool. I don't know. A lot of my projects, I kinda put on hold for the time being because of family stuff. Yeah.

I swim swimming a lot, which is nice. And, there's been work, which has been good. Oh, yeah. You know? I've been working more this summer, I've been working, like, in art department and props Mhmm.

For stuff, and there's been a lot more work than there has been. That's been nice. Yeah. You know, it's thanks. I'm taking it one day at a time right now.

Like, you gotta. That's all you can do. We do what we can do. Laloons. Because I should have sign, I think.

I don't know if I do a thumbs up. It'll do different little things. If you do a little come on, buddy. No. I almost got it there.

Thank goodness this isn't a video podcast. I am doing pretty alright. To tail onto what Burris was saying, I'm gonna jump onto both of those coattails directly. Lot more basketball recently. Paid played some of the worst basketball I've ever played in my life.

Just like shooting around by myself, it was terrible, but it was so good to get out there because I hadn't for quite a while. And some kids that saw me playing were like, dunk it. Dunk it. And I'm like, I'm barely 5 foot 10 when I wake up in the morning and skinny and bald and, like, what it like, really? Really?

Like, no. I'm not that's not physically possible for me. The other coattail, I love to hear that you're working, Burris. It's one of those things I've been doing some reading. BBC recently had an article, and the numbers in terms of production are just so grim.

And let's not get too wrapped up in that, dear listener, especially if you work in the industry. But, oy, it's just rough stuff out there with post strikes and new contracts and stuff like that. Production is in a really, really weird, weird place. So just keep your heads up, everybody, that work is is coming. It's happening.

It's a matter of time. You heard it here last. It's true. The industry is in a in a weird weird place, and Yeah. I'm glad to hear some people are still getting some work and The thing is, like, the commercials are always gonna be happening, and that's the only, like, upside.

And that's where the work has been for me. So Yeah. And they it's been some there have been some pretty fun weird shoots. So that's that's to be in, like, the art and prop side of it has been a lot of fun. That's a gift.

Yeah. We're gonna talk a lot about a weird shoot that I'm actually looking at. Let's see. Okay. The thing about the Zoom calls is we don't have to wear pants.

Well, I mean, this isn't a video podcast. Happy birthday. You never have to wear pants, really. I mean, we do a audio podcast. We do we are one of the last vestiges of audio only podcasts, apparently.

We're in a very small small segment, I guess. I think that means we're amateurs. Oh, clearly. Yeah. What is amateur hour?

Would it be like a lot of a video video a vlogcast where No. It's just they do they do pod they do, like, they just do it as a secondary thing. Oh, yeah. You can listen to it and then watch it on YouTube. And They'll they'll do, like, viral clips and stuff like that.

And but we still don't want people to see our faces or really No. Why would no? I need to edit this down. It like, again, I edit this like a psycho. Like, the video would not carry over.

That's true. They would just well, we'd have to start getting graphics that, like, pop in whenever you do one, like 2 hours later. Like, look at, like, Dave's face every time or with Jay Leno's chin on it. Some really fun, like, Batman swipes and What have I been doing? Thank you so much for asking.

Nobody cares. You only ask me because it's on the piece of paper. Okay. Someone has to host this thing. Okay?

Because Paul's just gonna keep jerking off. So Is that what you guys have been doing for the last couple years? Is it? I guess. Put this on video or get the fuck out of here.

Put us all in a in a Zoom meeting, and we'll all talk shit to each other. Unserious. Ben, tell me what you've been doing. I coached my first ever flag football game. Go on.

And my team won 32 to nothing. Oh, wow. Spread it on. In their defense, that other team was, like, not ready to play a game. But how many practices did you have before your game?

To, like, children. They were, like, a bunch of kids out there. We only had 3 practices. Oh, so I brought my own plays. And, again, this is not for people listening to know.

I didn't grow up playing football. It's not my, like I'm not I'm not some sort of wizard of play calling like McDaniels or something. I feel like I need to take a photo of you right now with this headset and this hat because you're presenting a lot different than what you're saying. We did play we did play 1 season of, flag football. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. And did awful. There you go. Ben's even working the card. He's hiding the lips.

Well, we did so anyway, we came up with a number code. We we had we had armbands, and and and then we just we dominated. And, so that was fun. That was a new, like, new different, direction for me to go. Other than that, I've just been playing a lot of video games.

Stardew Valley on Switch Mhmm. Which is a cozy sim, basically. And, Jess and I can play it together, and I can just farm and fish. I love a cozy game. I miss Cooking Mama.

Is that a cozy game? Cooking Mama? Cooking Mama? I thought Cooking Mama was pretty cozy. I just don't know what that is.

It was a game where it was, like, Overcooked where you just had to prepare food, but it was way less stressful than Overcooked. Okay. And it had pleasant music. Sorry. Go on.

I that sounds fun to me too. I thought you were just calling me mama and telling me that you love cooking. You have a kid? We do. This is, this is Sand Cat.

You've been hearing her bell as she's been tearing ass around here, but she doesn't like to be too far away from me for too long. So she's she's a good old gal. So, anyway, that's what I've been doing. No more let's not talk about that anymore because we got another segment to get to. Oh, baby.

Please. Please. What are you watching? Burris, please. I watched a show that was on Netflix that used to be on Starz called Heels.

There was, like, 2 seasons of it with Stephen Amell, and it's about, like, a a family's run, wrestling league in a tiny town in Atlanta. And and then it got canceled. I it was enjoyable. I enjoyed it. I there was some there was some thoughts read that, like, if it does well on Netflix, they might pick it up for a 3rd season.

I was like, oh, cool. I like I wouldn't I wouldn't hate that. It was silly and and, you know, had some, like, drama and you know? But it was it was fun. Stuff.

I watched a drama. Great costume. Thank you. Thank you. Time Bandits.

I watched Time Bandits. Oh. The show. The That just got canceled. Series.

Yeah. I I enjoyed it. I thought it the ending led me to believe that then the second season would be more like the movie. It's kinda seemed like what they were going towards making or really wrapping that in because, we'll never know now. So it doesn't matter.

And, Agatha Ollog. How is that? I love Aubrey Plaza. Catherine Hahn. Mhmm.

Oh, oh, also. Sure. Yes. I'm enjoying it so far. I I like the second and third episode more than the first episode, but I Pilots are tough.

That's usually the case. Yeah. There's a lot to fit into a pilot. Oh, yeah. Pilots are tough.

Directly on the coattails of a burrito with an extra long tortilla hanging back. I'm gonna grab onto it. I watched the mister McMahon documentary about Vince McMahon, the, founder, cofounder, inheritor, buyer, builder of World Wrestling Entertainment, formerly World Wrestling Federation, formerly, previously, now. Whatever. Speaking of things that are just spooky or just, like, kind of unsettling at times, I don't know how fair the whole thing is.

He walked away from participating in it at a certain point because certain things have come to light and he decided to, walk away. But it was massively entertaining and eye opening about a lot of things. I was never a big wrestling fan even as a kid. Like, it was always a, like, kinda tertiary thing for me, I guess. It was good.

It was pretty fascinating. It moves at a good clip. And moving on to something scary, yesterday was International Rabbit Day. Oh, International Rabbit Day. Not to watch any horror movies right now.

I'm trying to, you know, wait until it actually is October. I watched Who Framed Roger Rabbit. You just listened to our the monster squad episode, everybody. That movie has nothing on Who Framed Roger Rabbit. It is Yeah.

So incredible. It's a 5 star movie. Bob Hoskins' performance in that is arguably the GOAT of GOAT performances. It's so incredibly trailblazing and groundbreaking, and it's just a fucking masterpiece. And it is bone chilling at times, and it's filled with a lot of really, really excellent performances, beautiful in 4 k at home.

I've been waiting for someone to bring that here, and I just got sick of waiting. And yesterday being International Rapid Day was my excuse to go, okay. Fucking. Yeah. Christopher Lloyd, as you were saying, Verus, is like holy good.

Hunting. Hunting. The makeup is incredible. I think that falls in line with spooky because when I was a kid, that was terrifying. It's Mhmm.

It is a scary movie. It the story line, you know, I e similar to, like, you know, Chinatown, it's just so fucking relevant too when you're just thinking about the way that political systems work or cities work and how money is moved and things get done, and it's like, Los Angeles had the greatest street car system arguably in the world at a point in time. And that went away for freeways because that's what auto manufacturers wanted to happen, and that movie just delivers that storyline so beautifully. Mhmm. Yeah.

As I said, pilots are hard. I watched Nobody Wants This with Kristen Bell and Adam Brody on Netflix. It's like a romcom series, and I like romcoms. Pilot, solid. Solid.

I haven't, like, gone further or whatever, but I plan to. Okay. Good to know. Ben. Oh, yeah.

I'm gonna ride watching things? I'm gonna ride your coattails. I'm feeling Hop on. In a similar groove. I I'm watching man in the arena, the Tom Brady docuseries.

Mhmm. I feel like I'm fine I was I finally am at a point. He's been out of the league now for 2 years that I can I can watch it and be less I get more objective, I guess? Because what they built there in New England in particular was pretty incredible. Mhmm.

And it and it's just like like him or hate him, he's he just can he can ball. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He he understands the game in a way that is hard to teach. I think impossible to teach.

So it I was able to So Tony Romo is not teaching me right now? How good of a coach are you? I I wanna learn. Tony Romo teaches every day. He's a genius, man.

I love him. But I I was able to push down my PTSD and watch the the Seahawks episode. No. I knew you were gonna say that as soon as you said the PTSD thing. I knew it.

Because mine went, hi. Yeah. And whatever. And what was kinda what's kinda cool is, like, with that episode because they do it kind of in eras and kind of in Super Bowl chunks. And in that episode, they, Sherman was there talking about the legion of because they do it with the Giants throughout.

Like, they'll do they'll talk about the Giants season so that when they get to the Super Bowl, it kinda, like, and they had, like they didn't have Eli Manning. Who did they have? Michael Michael, Strahan? Strahan. Yeah.

Was it Strahan? I I I think it was Strahan. But, anyway, it was cool to have Sherman there, and he was, like, you know, talking about Legion and Boom and watching that. And then, also, I watched my new 4 k disc of Train to Busan Oh. Which, if you hadn't checked, Netflix has taken off.

So I'm once again going to tell everybody that physical media is the dominant form, and you should spend all of your hard earned cash. But That's crazy. I just saw glasses appear on you and gloves on your hands. And But, anyway I'm imploring you. That 4 k disc, that movie is great.

And that and talking to It's really fun. It's part horror. It's part action. Don Lee is so fucking cool in that movie. Yeah.

He's just cold clocking zombies. Lot of heart in that movie. Yes. And there's a lot of heart. And the kid acting is Solid.

Is really good. That's me, and I think we should, we should move on so we can talk about the movie that we watched for an hour and 18 minutes. Archaeology is the search for facts. I, I'll I'll tell you this for free. Wolfman Scott's mad.

We watched a movie called A Nightmare Before Christmas. Hey. It's Paul from The Edit. I just want you to know, originally, I said the title of this movie is A Nightmare Before Christmas, knowing that the title of the movie is Tim Burton's The Nightmare Before Christmas. I'm adding this and apologizing for trying to upset those that are upsetable about this.

Onward. This was Touchstone Pictures. What's the first movie you think of when you see the Touchstone logo? Sister Act. Oh.

I think that's mine too. Yeah. Sister act for sure. Burris, do you have a touch tone touch tone? No.

I can't think of 1. If one hits you, interrupt. I mean, I know the I know the intro, the touch tone intro, so I can visualize, you know, but I can't connect it to a movie off the top of my head. A weird favorite of mine? Nice tiny little short jingle, blue circle, shiny rock, freight.

Done. It's not as nice as New Line Cinema, but it's good. I do. New Line used to scare the shit out of me. Yeah.

De Novi pictures as well, as well as Tim Burton productions. This is a PG movie. It's from 1993. It is 1 hour and 16 minutes or 76 minutes or one minute over the minimum feature length, which could have fucking fooled me. Budget, $18,000,000.

Adjusted that 39.2. Opening weekend was October 22nd. Happy birthday, dad. 1993. That was the wide release.

Made $6,200,000 in the US. That's 13 point 5,000,000 adjusted. Final gross in North America was 87.6. That's 190.8 adjusted. Final gross worldwide, it made a little made a little bit of money.

101.7 adjusted, that's 221 point 555. Woah. Other releases this state, Rudy. Rudy. Rudy.

Rudy. Rudy. Something called me and the kid. We can top 5. The Beverly Hillbillies.

Nice. Demolition Man, which is getting a 4 k release this, winter. This is December. Is this what you're doing, Paul? Is that what you're doing?

I am yes. I am. Ben's making a motion that is offensive, but he looks like he's getting a good workout. This episode brought to you by Shake Weight. Number 3 at the box office was this movie.

Number 4 was Cool Runnings, and number 5 was Rudy. Top 5 films this year domestic were Jurassic Park, the fug the foogy? The fugative? The fudgetive. I think that's right.

The fudge detective. The fudge detective. The firm I don't know what to mean. Don't go down that route. Sleepless in Seattle and missus Doubtfire.

Hello. It was a run by fruiting. Let's all do bad missus Doubtfires. Nobody's listening. Don't worry about it.

Other films from 1993, Free Willy, The 3 Musketeers with Charlie Sheen, Dennis the Menace, The Good Son, The Joy Luck Club, The Man Without A Face, The Piano, and Jason Goes to Hell, The Final Friday for all you horror freaks that are tuned in. I know you wanted wanted that one. Spooky. Spooky. What have has everyone seen that?

Just me? I have not. But that wasn't the final Friday because there was a Not even close. Yeah. Yeah.

That's a that's just a lie. Yeah. It's a bald faced hockey mask lie. The Letterboxd average on this film is 4. Follow us on Letterboxd, won't you?

Yeah. Follow me at run b m c. That's run b e e m c. You can follow me at Paul acts badly. Burris, I follow you on Letterboxd.

Been here, been there. I'm almost sure that's what it is. Yeah. I think that's what it is. I haven't been on for a hot second.

I gotta go up and just update all the things that I've seen. It's I spend entirely too much time on that fucking app. Me too. Sysco and Ebert gave this 2 marginal thumbs up. So I don't always watch the actual reviews, but I was curious.

I was most curious on this one, and they both marginal. Rotten Tomatoes, 95%. Metacritic, 82. Major award wins and nominations. This had an Oscar nomination for visual effects.

It also won 2. This is a genre movie, you know, and the Saturn Awards are a big deal for genre movie. I just wanna say, this was nominated for music and film for that. And at the Annie Awards, it was nominated for a best picture. It was a totally normal way to say that.

Good job, Paul. It's a it's a your turn, Evan. The director of this movie is Mario Mario. The director of this movie is not Tim Burton. Fooled you, fucks.

It's Henry Selwyn. Yes. Thank you. Who also did Coraline, Monkeybone starring Cornish's favorite son, Brendan Fraser, and Wendell m Wilde. Writers, Caroline Thompson, who did buddy, welcome to Marwan, Michael McDowell, tales from the dark side, thinner, and Tim Burton, who we all know for Frankenweenie.

You bet. He hasn't written a lot. And, Beetlejuice. You're forgetting. Beetlejuice?

Mhmm. Yeah. Beetlejuice. Gosh. Shit.

We come to the daughter, Chuck. He's one of the 3 writers. Nice fucking model. Director of photography Nice fucking model. Kosnatchuk, James, RIP, James and the Giant Peach, which also terrified me as a kid.

Coraline and Corpse Bride, all, stop motion features. Music is Danny Elfman, Big Eyes, Dark Shadows, Proof of Life, every single Tim Burton movie, Spider Man. So much stuff. Like, a lot of Men in Black Yep. Silver Linings Playbook, Milk.

Yeah. His name in movies again. Yeah. Producers, would you know it? Tim Burton who did Mars Attacks!

Exclamation point. Denise De Novi, who also produced Heathers and Batman returns. Listen to our Heathers and our Batman returns episodes. You bet. Starring Chris Sarandon who plays Jack Skellington.

He's the speaking parts. He is in the original fright night from 1985. He is in child's play, tales from the crypt presents bordello of blood, and also he's in princess bride. That's right. Prince Umberdink.

Danny Elfman is the singing voice, which I have to say, they do a really good job of blending them. They did those 2 guys, man, great work. Best known for his band, Boingo Boingo, and he did the Simpsons theme, which I'm sure might have a little appearance here for a second. Stop whistling that annoying song. The great, the amazing Catherine O'Hara Mhmm.

Plays Sally who is in Beetlejuice. Yes. Also in Beetlejuice Beetlejuice. Goddamn it. Models said it three times.

Best in show, Waiting for Gutman. Nice fucking joke. Schitt's Creek. Yeah. William Hickey Home Alone Home Alone 2, Los of New York.

Star Right Star Right. Never mind. William Hickey Yeah. RIP plays doctor Finkelstein. Doctor.

Doctor. The doctor. The doctor. Prizes Honor, Major Pain, Sea of Love. Major Pain.

Yeah. That's a movie that I used to love as well. That's one of those movies that still I watched that not that long ago, and it still hits some chords for me that work. Yeah. So it's kinda funny.

Glenn Shaddix, RIP, plays the mayor, Otto, in Beetlejuice. He's in Heathers and Men from 1997. Paul Reubens, RIP, plays 1 Lock, which is one of the Oogaboogee kids. He's obviously Pee wee, Pee wee's big adventure, Buffy that he's in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and he's in Mystery Men. Listen to our Mystery Men episode, please.

He's so good in Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Are people still fans of that movie regardless of Yeah. The Christy Swanson and Joss Whedon Yeah. For sure. Pieces?

It says Luke Perry, Paul Rubens. Valid. Hour. Paul Rubens was good in everything he did. Yeah.

That is valid. I was a big pee wee fan. So Mhmm. Ken Page plays Oogie Boogie. Hey, everyone.

It's Paul from The Edit again. Unfortunately, between recording and this release, the actor who plays the voice of Oogie Boogie, Ken Page, passed away. We just wanted to say rest in peace. Thank you. Dreamgirls, All Dogs Go to Heaven, Shortcut to Happiness.

And Ed Ivory, r I p, plays Santa. Rampage, Blood Red, 9 months. Burris, I believe you have some I'd like to add, Danny Elfman also plays, Beryl and the clown with the tearaway face. And and Catherine O'Hara is also one of the boogie boogie shock. Yeah.

Lock. Lock, shock, and barrel. She's shocked. Right? Yeah.

Yeah. Fun facts. Oh, yes. Fun facts. Fun facts, everybody.

It's fun fact time. What are you trying to tell many on the production have stated the most difficult shot of the entire movie is when Jack is reaching for the doorknob to Christmas land, mostly because you can see the perfect surround reflection of the forest around Jack in the background. So it's really hard to hide the soundstage that they're on. That shot is absolutely gorgeous. It's beautiful.

Danny Elfman found writing nightmares 10 songs as one of the easiest jobs he's ever had. That's insane. Absolutely insane. These songs At this point, he's coming from a background of he's the lead singer of Boingo Boingo. I Boingo Boingo was around from 1979 to 1995.

I I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that these songs are classic. They're Oh, yeah. They're timeless. And Every one of them.

And so someone to say that it was one of the easiest jobs I've ever had is, like, that's crazy. And what's what's awesome is, when they were figuring out the music for it, Tim Burton was, like, the music producer and at Danny Elfman's personal recording studio in his house. And they recorded the whole, soundtrack as they're trying to work it out, and Danny Elfman played all of the voices for every song except for Sally's song because it's a it would be high high falsetto and didn't wanna do that. The character of doctor Finkelstein is listed only as the evil scientist in the cast credits. In the original 3 page poem by Tim Burton, the only characters that existed because this is based on a poem.

Mhmm. The only characters that were listed was, Jack, 0, and Santa. And all of the other characters were made up for that movie. Although he describes some of the evil presence which were being given out, which is lovely. Also, Tim Burton is still in ownership of the rights of this idea and has not and claims will not allow any sequels or spin offs to be made from this story.

He has, however, allowed the use of Jack and Oogie Boogie and some other characters to be used in games like, Kingdom Hearts and to be used, you know, in all Disneyland Yeah. Kingdom Hearts. I I have a question. When because when did Disney acquire this? They always owned it because they always owned Touchstone.

Yeah. And they released it under Touchstone because, they thought it would get a bigger appeal. And, also, if they did it under It's I thought it was a little too, yeah, it was a little too spooky and and off the cuff to be a Disney release Gotcha. Originally. And I I do think it's interesting because especially at this time of year at Disneyland, it's they're so heavily Nightmare Before Christmas, which is cool.

Sure. I also think it's funny. There's something about this movie that I that I I I I don't wanna give it this way, but, like, there's something about this movie where people when you, like, meet someone whose, like, personality is nightmare before Christmas. We've talked about this. Like like that they they went to Hot Topic, and they were like Mhmm.

Give me everything. I'm like, I don't I'm not no. I I don't know if I wanna stay or stick around. Like, I think I'm good. If if you're listening to this episode and you don't agree that this movie's appeal is largely for 8 to 13 year olds, depending on who's talking and why, especially me, you may have a rough ride.

We'll see how that goes. But, yeah, they walk into Hot Topic. They grab all the Nightmare Before Christmas shit. They grab a shake weight. They get back to the club or whatever the fuck.

And it's what? No. I too have an issue with that. And before we do go to break, I wanna say on the note of the songs, Danny Elfman is, like, a legendary musician. Right?

Composer, writer, lyricist, all this shit. Right? Can play a 1,000,000 instruments. It makes sense to me that he found this kind of simple partly because I don't know how long this script is without the songs. The world exists around the songs.

The movie kind of exists around the songs. The the melody is are very catchy. Simple. Like, it's a thing where it's supposed to be like a movie that you're watching and it has, like, that Disney feel where you're like and you find yourself humming it. Yeah.

And for me, it's the the idea of, like, oh, this was super easy. It's like, what? And now that I can break it down, it's like, oh, I guess. Yes. Sure.

For you, not for me. Like, this movie is built around this thing. So Well, it it actually it actually was. There is the adaptation from Tim Burton's, poem that was done by Michael McDowell, but he didn't write the screenplay. And before Caroline Thompson started writing the screenplay, the music was 80% done.

She talks about her job was then kind of constructing a through line between the songs so that they hit all the story beats. Well, hey. There was a There was There was a dent. Yeah. So although it was kind it was very much based around these these songs that, you know, Danny Elfin took the artwork because Tim Burton just drew and drew and drew and drew, and he looked at that artwork and then wrote these songs based on the story and the the visuals that he was seeing that Tim Burton was giving him.

And that was a very much a collaboration. We should probably take a break. Yeah. I'm gonna go. I'm going to get a full body workout in 30 seconds.

Thanks to our sponsors, Shake Weight. Wow. That's a are they still are they still a company? I certainly hope not. You know, I'm gonna find out.

And it's Did you ever have one? Because I did. I know you did. I no. I've yeah.

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Okay. Fair enough. I'm actually gonna we're gonna take a break. I'm gonna order a Shake Weight. Yeah.

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I know I know you're terrified to go to break and to hear about the shake weight, everybody, but you're gonna have to. We'll be back. A 420 Pictures presents a Taft Bearish Production. A girth burrito film. Shake.

Wait. A suburban couple with a young child receives a simple wooden box containing a used shake weight as a present, which bears deadly and irrevocable consequences. A A freaky weird dude delivers a message that the wait promises to bestow upon the song, $111,000,000, as well as being totally ripped with a shake and some waiting. It's so simple. However, while you wait, it will cause the death of a really ripped guy somewhere in the world, someone they don't know.

I mean They didn't know how ripped he was. With just 24 hours to have the wait in their possession, Gorbonk and Ridgron find themselves in the crosshairs of a startling moral dilemma and must face the true nature of their humanity to shake and wait. Shake Weight is not the movie The Box with the Shake Weight in place of the box. What? No.

It's a different thing. It has a buff, dead guy and Gorbonk. You ever seen Gorbonk dance, You see that in the box? You will. You will in this movie.

Just wait. This movie is possibly, maybe, loosely inspired by the Richard Kelly film The Box, which is based on the Richard Dickey plus minus Madison story button. Button. That's right. Jake.

Wait. Maybe it's a bad I like a good pilot pen. G 2. It's a good pen. Yeah.

Well, I have some cards here. Oh, fuck. Oh, no. No. Channel file.

Hey, Burris, you get the freebie, baby. It's for your No. B b. You get the freebie for your b d for your b d. Inner light B and b.

Like, my anxiety. Oh, okay. Gotta say it. It said the actor in the movie. Say it.

Gotta say it. You can't take time to write down movies. No. I'm writing down the freebie just so I don't forget it. Well, say it now.

Nicole Kidman. In the freebie? The well, I wanna say okay. Moulin Rouge. To die for.

Batman forever. You son of a bitch. I just can't think of the title, so that sucks for me. That's kinda game. Yeah.

Yeah. My shit. Eyes wide shut. It's okay, Bruce. It's your birthday.

Why don't you tell us? Why don't you why don't you tell us? My Batman forever. I was like, I can go Batman forever, and then I have time to think of the next one. Why don't you tell us your history with the movie Nightmare Okay.

Christmas? My favorite band of all time is Oingo Boingo. I may not listen to them constantly, but it's always gonna be something that's a solid throwback. Do you consider this a dead man's party? That's the you there's so many other songs that I consider this a dead man's party?

Like, this movie is kind of a dead man's party. Right? Yeah. Who could ask for more? Okay.

Thank you. When I was 10, I was at their farewell concert in 95, And then I was at the reunion show in 2001 without Danny Elfman. And then I saw Danny Elfman at the Hollywood Bowl 2 years ago, where then he, for the first time in 20 3 ish years, 28 years, something like that, first time singing, Boingo Boingo songs besides Dead Man's Party. Oh, wow. And he did them he did, like, a whole slew of, like, a back catalog of some favorites, and that was just fucking awesome.

I went into this movie, like, already a fan of Danny Elfman. I was already a fan of Tim Burton. You know? I love Beetlejuice and Huge Playhouse and, you know, Batman. And, you know, and, yeah, I saw it in theaters, and I loved it.

And you're ranking then and you're ranking now? 93. So I was 8. I mean, I don't remember never not liking it. I think there was, like, parts that were, like, creepy and scary and stuff, but I I dug that and I dug the style.

So I'm gonna say I gave it a 5 stars then. Alright. And now? I probably would stick I think I'm just gonna stick with 5 stars. I love this movie.

You can nitpick things, but, like, the design, the artistry, the music, design elements, they all hold up. And, you know, the characters and the it's just very creative and visually stimulating and very much my my style, and that's there you go. I saw this movie at the theater. I took myself for International Grandparents' Day as a present to myself, But I I remember seeing this movie at the movie theater and being, like, totally enamored with it. And I think the main thing about this movie is it is so much broader than I think I realized then until this viewing, and it has this great mass appeal.

I don't know. I I just remember loving the movie. It was, like, 5, demented bullet riddled duck toys, and I thought it was great. I got the clamshell VHS in the black clamshell and watched it a hundred times. It would go on after I got done with, my afternoon water aerobics or my Pilates or the other stuff I do at the senior center.

Oh, yes. Were you on you weren't on a cruise at this time? No. No. Not at this point.

They don't allow spookies like this on cruises. People it's not Christian. They they we find it a Yeah. We find it offensive. Okay?

So I have watched this movie a 100 times. We've all been to the or heard of the or have a an idea of, right, the Nightmare Before Christmas thing that happens at the Disney Parks and all that stuff is this has always been a Disney movie. And I rewatched this movie today knowing that the last couple viewings I've had have had kind of diminishing returns and was somewhat delighted that I still walk away with 4 demented ducks filled with bullet holes. Demented toy ducks filled with bullet holes. Because again, I actually think the movie is brilliantly broad.

It comes off as specific because it's so bizarre and it's so coded in so many ways, but that's the thing is in so many ways, this this really has so much broad appeal, especially as, like, a weird person. And I'm like, oh, yeah. Like, these weird design elements or these trippy things, or Jack breaks the 4th wall and looks at the camera and is like, the pumpkin king, and, like, the lighting changes and reminders that this is, you know, a movie for kids or whatnot, but still has so much broad appeal that it still works later. And where it's like, it's Christmas town. It's Christmas land.

This guy doesn't know what snow is. And 2 lines later, he knows what snow is. And it's not a perfect movie, but I still think it's so great. And, like, technically, in terms of, like, the actual animation and the mixed media shit and, like, the songs and stuff like that, it's ironclad. But, also, it feels real fucking long.

It feels to me like it's, like, you know, in the neighborhood of an hour 40. When someone's not singing, especially when the music is slow and, kinda plotting. I think I slowed down. The movie the music has so much control over me. When the music goes really slow, it's like time seems to slow down.

I don't know what it is, but great movie, just so goddamn beautiful for. I, I did not see this movie in the theater as far as I can recall. I think I first saw this movie, I wanna say, maybe on the Disney Channel around Halloween season. So it it was kinda later for me. And I I remember from an early age knowing about it because people would talk about it.

And for me, it was all like, the weird thing that I watched as a kid was Beetlejuice. And I watched Beetlejuice from a very early age, probably too early, and that was, like, the the weird Burton that I always kind of connected with. But I think I must have seen this on Disney Channel, like, around Halloween season and really enjoying it and the designs. And I can see why a lot of people confuse conflate this in being a Burton movie because the designs are so of his aesthetic that we've come to know. Thank goodness it's not.

This would have been Tim Burton's Megalopolis. What? No. Let's not let's not let's not bring Megalopolis into this. Yeah.

I mean, he didn't direct this, but it was all his artistic creation. Yeah. Yeah. Right. The visuals and everything come it it is a Tim Burton mind piece For sure.

Directed by somebody else. Yeah. He's super super hands on through the movie. Yeah. And I think, like, I probably would've back then I probably would've given it 4.

And the music and the movie have become a regular play for me every spooky season. I'll I'll put it I put this movie on, I think, every year. And no mostly don't watch it. Mostly just have it on in the background while I'm cleaning or or decorating or cooking or working or whatever. Coming.

This was the first time that I've seen yeah. Or Shake weight. Shake weight. Shake weight. Yeah.

Yeah. Getting a workout. Shake weight, everything for Christmas. They go together like lamb and tuna fish. So anyway so anyway, this morning, I watched I actually watched this movie.

Like, to put it on, I'm like, I'm gonna watch it. I'm gonna watch this movie. Yeah. And was thoroughly entertained. It it is it is broad or simple.

It's but it's it's it's a fairy tale. And I think that, like, it's easy to forget that because it's subversive in the in its in its sort of, like, approach to a fairy tale and the designs, you know, it's it's it's a dark vision. It's not it's not your typical Disney movie, but it is. It's it's very, very, like, high archetypes and, simple plotting, simple desires, and, a simple solution, which is fine. I'd say if I had one issue with this movie, kinda similar to Paul, but I don't really I didn't feel this movie runs long for me.

I just think the 3rd act stumbles. After Oogie Boogie becomes sort of, like, the primary antagonist, it sort of becomes, like, very it's like that's it's a very it's a very simple parachute cord rip of, like, oh, that's how we're gonna get out of this problem is we just have to defeat Oogie Boogie. And it wraps up super quick. Yeah. Which is, like, very It's it's fine.

Like, it were I could see where the concept maybe started to run out of traction, and then they were like, oh, wait. We actually have to, like, come to some sort of, like, resolution here. And that means that Jack can't just be the antagonist because he kinda has been the whole time. Yes. And so, like, they have to introduce, like, oh, someone who's countered to Jack who to show Jack his the wrong of his ways.

Wait. I have I have a couple questions. One's for Burris. This for you is a Halloween movie. I know.

Burris, is this a a an annual watch for you, and do you normally watch it on around Halloween? I think it's a, like, a fall movie. Fall into, like, like, it's a it it can span both holidays. And it's if I'm not if I don't watch it, I'll at least listen to the music. And we're, like, again, like, have it on the background or, like, watch bits of it.

I've seen it so many times. Like, it I know all the songs by heart. So, like, when I watch it, I was like, have to try to, like, fight not to sing along. And so yeah. You know?

Like, I I I've always been someone else that I can't watch a movie over and over and over and over and over again because I know it too well that it it just I don't wanna spoil it for myself, so I I like to leave, you know, gaps. But, yeah, it's it's a it's a Halloween movie. It's always gonna Okay. At least at some point beyond either in the background or maybe for watching. You know?

I guess this is the thing for me is this is more of a Christmas movie for me. It it's a movie that I want cold weather and hot cocoa and I don't know. As Ben touched on too, I also feel largely through this movie, Jack is the antagonist. Are are we to believe this is my other question? So the guy who just ransacks Christmas land or town, whatever you decide it is, Like, I'm gonna take this car, I'm gonna take all these gifts, I'm fucking peacing out of here.

By the way, kids, can you guys just go kidnap this guy or whatever? That this is the good guy? Like, I get like where it's like we have but we need if we introduce this, New Orleans bug bag, then, all is all is But I think say it for You're forgetting that Go ahead. For Jack is, you know, he thinks he's doing it for a noble cause. He is Yeah.

And I think we're gonna get we're gonna get there when we start the movie, but you gotta let me give him that ranking. This is 4 out of 4 or 4 out of 5. Sorry. 4 out of 5 Woah. Removable heads because I can take off my head and recite Shakespearean quotation.

So this was a a 4 to 4 4 to 5 YouTube when you first saw it, and then, and it's still at a 4 for you. Yep. Yeah. It's still at 4 for me. With a critical eye, you're like, no.

This is a I hold this in a high regard. Designs, the art the artistic, the merit in this, the amount of time that it takes to do something like this. The level of detail to Yeah. Everything in, like yeah. It's just it's it's yeah.

And the music, again, like, it's timeless. There's a reason they play at the hall at the Hollywood Bowl every year and sell out. Let's say one more thing. As we have noted, and now that you've watched The Guest and listened to it on this program as well as on Back to the Blockbuster, that's a 5 star movie. That movie should win an Oscar.

This movie, we rate it 4 out of 5. If it wins if it won an Oscar, that makes sense to us. That's what we're saying with a 4. That's a that's a highly thought of thing. 100%.

So we should start the movie. Start the movie. Start the movie. Start the movie. Start the movie.

Start the movie. And now our feature presentation. Into a video. Which one? The opening is great.

I think it's, yeah, it's one of my favorite songs, I think. 1st, you have this lovely overture that happens, and that also like, he puts, he puts in, like, a little tidbit of Sally's song and, you know, like, there's a little bit of everything just pops in here, and we have this lovely narration prologue to begin it. And then that's you see all of the holiday doors. And I remember as a kid, like, I wanna go in all of those. I wanna see what's exciting.

Oh, yeah. Of course. One of them. And then they open up the pumpkin, and then, yeah, we've got that first couple beats of dun dun and it just, like, gets you excited. It kinda, like, pumps you up.

It does. Yeah. The music is fantastic. It's weird for me that it doesn't say touchstone pictures anymore. I watch this on Disney plus.

Everyone? Yeah. He's done. That it says Walt Disney pictures, I'm like, what? And I mean, it always was.

The the main thing was, like, they were tricking me the first time. So why was I upset now that they're just being honest with me? Well, Burris just went back into the overlook, and he is now dressed as a bunny and giving somebody a head. Happy International Rabbit Day. We're we're in the annals of football by Dan Patrick.

I went to grab my old DVD because I wanna see if it's a touchstone or anything on it. If anyone hasn't seen The Shining, that's the reference. Apologies. No. Apologies accepted.

My background yeah. My background's the the hallway. I sent lovely carpet. I sent the, previous opening to you guys in our text thread where it still said touchstone. So it's just weird.

But I I agree that this is when this is Halloween comes on and it's like, this is Halloween town. These are the residents of Halloween town. I love that I can see the strings on the little bats that fly by and the Jack reveal at the end of the song. Like, it just that song builds the world so beautifully. Yeah.

I mean, the just the song, but the song combined with the what we're seeing, like, the character designs and the world designs Mhmm. It it just it immediately puts you into this pocket, and it's a unique original Yeah. Spooky world. They introduce every, like, supporting character. It just really is a great introduction into the world that we're gonna be living in for the next hour 17 minutes now.

Yeah. I I gotta say, you know, as a kid and as an adult, having not watched this as much the last several years, I remember as a kid being like, oh, cool. Oh, cool. Oh, cool. As, like, you know, liking weird offbeat stuff and still liking that.

Still finding myself going, oh, cool. Oh, cool. These characters that fought this world. Like, the the jazz musician guys and the one guy who's, like, nice work, bone daddy. Yeah.

I mean, I feel like everyone knows this story, but, like, basically, we were in a world where it's it's there it's like it's the Christmas town of where they are planning every year for Halloween. And so there's this. And he is the king of hallow or he's the fucking king. There's a Saint Patrick's town. It looks like a Valentine's Day town.

Like Is Saint Patrick's town just Based on the portals. It's just Boondock Saints and Warwick Davis and and famous actor. Rivers of green beer and, Yeah. Vomit. And you're like, are you just famous actor?

Ghost socks. You're you are Oscar award nominated actor, Bill Dafoe? Tune in in a couple months for that Easter egg. There is an Easter egg world too. There there's an Easter world.

I I I agree with what Burris is saying about, like, the the beginning too. It's a great way to establish kind of, like, this exists and the the way it's established and revisited. But the I feel like the songs, like, come pretty hot and heavy at first. Right? Yeah.

We first get the This is Halloween, and then we get Jack's Lament. Yeah. The pumpkin king? Quickly after that. And we learn very quickly that Jack isn't content with this life of just preparing for Halloween, doing his job apparently very well because he's very well liked in this town, but it's not enough for him.

He's lonely. He's tired of the monotony of the same thing every year. Kind of leads into having, like, a midlife crisis. I like this piece. This is actually you know, I I remember the 2 faced mayor because I thought that was so funny as a kid, and I always look forward to that performance in general and a lot of performances in this movie.

But the the Jack's Lament piece as, Ben, you mentioned your ratings where it's made very clear that Jack's, you know, not happy and I as he ascends that mountain as he's singing and you've gotten this beautiful transition between Chris Sarandon's voice and Danny Elfman's voice that I still honestly, it's like You can't tell. Could could be the same guy. Yeah. And I noticed 0's nose is a pumpkin for the first time ever in this viewing. It's a jack o'-lantern.

Never noticed that, that it's a jack o'-lantern. It's, like, it's got all these beautiful little details that I'm not noticing, but I'm just waiting for that mountain to unfurl. Oh, it's so cool. Mhmm. It's such a great visual and it's gorgeous.

And it's, you know, Danny, not, Tim Burton with his, all of the odd angles. You know? Mhmm. Starting with, you know, be let's go like Beetlejuice, the doorways, and, like, it like, everything. He's always got these odd angles.

His college dorm room at Cal Arts, the door. You should look it up. It's it's like a regular square door, but, like, the, the insides of it are all odd angled shapes. He must have, like, had it custom made for his room. And then, like, this all the spirals and just, no 90 degree angles.

Yeah. Nothing's quite straight. Right? Yeah. Yeah.

It's it's very I love the aesthetic. The stripes on his suit, like, everything is just slightly it's so visually striking. And so we see Jack as being sort of like the guy we're gonna follow, but we're also introduced to Sally and her father slash creator. Overbearing. Yeah.

And Sally is like a she's like a doll who's come alive. Sally is, in many ways that we could talk about, it follows a pretty standard trope for a female character in this. Yeah. But they also like, this is 1990 3. She's obsessed with Jack.

But she also has her own agency, and she's, you know, she's trying to I mean, she has her own agency in terms of, like, wanting to get away from her her surroundings as well is similar to Jack. And I that's what she really when she hears Jack's song, I think that's what really draws her even further to him because she sees, like, oh, he isn't just the person he shows. He actually wants more just like me. They're both they're both feeling trapped. She's an unhappy, unappreciated, like Yeah.

Housewife, essentially, that's been trapped by this horrible, unappreciative, shitty guy The doctor thinks poisons over and over again just to be able to show out. Straight. I love that, actually. The the Halloween celebration. Yeah.

Where's yeah. The world. The culture of her world where she lives. So she has some semblance of knowledge, and he doesn't want her to have that. She just keeps poisoning him, and it just doesn't The slot is out of the slot is all.

Quite gets him there. Never quite gets him there. Jack does not come he has this great Halloween party. Everybody's singing the song and whistling it, and he explodes out of the pumpkin, and the mayor comes and to congratulate him, and we're ready to play in the new Halloween. You're the you're the king shit.

You're the best. And he's not home. He has been wandering in the woods. And he finds the doors and the trees to the different holiday land. Yeah.

He's been walking just aimlessly through the forest. It now sunrises like, where wait. Where are we? Something new. Some place he's never been before, which is already exciting for him.

And then I I was chomping at the bit to get back there and see those doors again. Oh, man. I I was like, oh. Because I also remember, like, oh, yeah. This movie moves it like a clip.

Like, we get from the doors to the doors, like, moving right along. Because then we're immediately into what's this what's this great song. Mhmm. And really it's also really cool for me kinda get ahead, but, like, when he does introduce the rest of the town, I think the thing that they're most everyone can agree that a Christmas tree is pretty. They're even, like, drawn to it.

You know, the in their weird, like, world where everything is topsy-turvy of, like, good, bad is good, or ugly is pretty or whatever. The tree with the lights draws them. And so Jack being drawn to that makes total sense to me and, like, that this is a world that's fully good. And Jack doesn't really have the resources to understand that, but he's interested. And he he can't teach it.

He can't impart it. But he, like, misunderstands it. Right? Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

He does. Mhmm. Mhmm. He misunderstands it more just as much as the like, he thinks he knows it so well, but His thoughts are perverted. Yeah.

His he has perverted thoughts. Like yours. Put the shit in there. Going in and staring like I'll never. I'll never.

Breaking in the homes and staring at, Right. Sleeping elves and What's this? What's this? It's white chocolate. What's this?

What's this? I'm trying to get on this. Wait. What? And it's he he goes from, what's this powder?

What's this white stuff? It is cold. It's very bold. Cocaine. And, like, no.

It it's snow. He doesn't know what the fuck anything is to this is snow very fast. There's a level of characters going a to c in this movie that is intentionally making it broad, and that's not a bad thing. It's a fairy tale. Yes.

I agree. We can't spend too much time on teaching Jack all of the terminology used in Christmas town. We have 76 minutes, baby. Especially since we as a audience, like, we know what that is. You know?

Like, we we're familiar with the North Pole. It snow. You're 8. Yeah. It snow.

Yeah. So to introduce a like, somebody who's so accustomed to the the darkness of Halloween to the bright chipperiness of Christmas. And he's interested and wants to bring it back home. The idea of it being opposite day is cool. That's a cool idea.

And then, yeah, the end of the song is the big, like, what is this? And then he walks into a pole. He walks into the fold. That's right. The snow comes down.

Classic. When he looks like a town. And he looks like a a a snowman. Right? Yeah.

Yeah. It all it all. Mhmm. He busts out of a snowman at a point. I love this cat alarm, by the way, when we're back in Halloween town.

They're cranking the cat tail, and it's just a cat screaming. I'm surprised I'm surprised you didn't give this for cat alarms, Paul. I almost gave it black cats. I almost there are a lot of cat related things. Yeah.

And I this is the thing. I'm shaking on my foundation. I I oh, I can't handle it now because I feel like you're anticipating me doing it. Yeah. I didn't there's too many things to to rate it as Right.

Object wise. I'm like, I I almost went drunken heads. I almost went vile presence. I almost went vampires. I almost went so many things.

Yeah. The, the mayor I don't know. This time watching it, I I was thought, like, you know, it's it's fun because, you know, he's the mayor, 2 faced. He's 2 faced like a politician's or 2 faced. Right.

I also I also had this thought. What an interesting depiction of bipolar. Mhmm. Because, like, like, happy happy face, and then the just the flip to just sadness. And I just was like, oh, that I just had that thought while watching.

I was like, that's an and both of them are just fascinating to think about. That's an struck me. That's an excellent point because you could actually potentially frame that as Halloween v Christmas too. Like, you know, darkness versus light, joy versus, you know, upsetness or what have you. That's really interesting.

I've never thought of that before. Like, that it because he wow. And that's any certain, like, thing could just, like, set him like, just work with him, but then he'll come back and it's just like, hats. Yeah. I just yeah.

Jack is so desperate for the dichotomy of of his every he's so desperate Uh-huh. For it. And, yeah, the shift that all these creatures and beings are trying to experience. But Sally just trying to experience existence as she is existing and, has a personage of some sort, is a doll, she now we actually actively get to see her, like, making the soup to poison dude. Right?

Oh, yeah. She used frog's breath and something else mask the smell as she Wormswart? And frog's breath? What is you? And she has a spoon with holes in it, so it pretends like she tries Genius.

A slotted spoon. Yeah. Yeah. Genius. And it kinda just drinks it down.

And he's also, like, part duck, maybe. I don't know what's happening. Yeah. Seductor is a bit strange. The duct the ductor?

The ductor. You mean That doesn't sound real. Did he get a did he get a ductor's peduncle? That doesn't that can't be real. So so Jack returns with all of his stolen booty from Christmas Town, and he's like, check out all this shit I stole.

And everybody's like, Jack, very cool, very Halloween, very pumpkin king. And they called him Sandy Claus. So good. That song, how he he pitches Christmas in shades of horror, and that's how he's found it. And to get the town and, like, gets the town on his side and gets them excited to try this new thing.

And I always love, like, that song just, like it's very it's fun how they depict how he saw Christmas Town and how he's now portraying it to And he says it at one point during that song because he's, like, trying to tell it kind of how as it is or how he saw it, and he says he's still not getting it. And then he goes so he says something like, okay. I'll give it to her like this. And then when he starts to describe Santa, he talks about, like, he's, like, dressed in all in red. Like, he starts coloring him as this monstrous figure.

Yeah. Like a dictator. And like a and like lobster red and, like, just creating this monster. Oh, you don't have claws. And so, like, that depiction, like, really gets them on their his side.

And this is where I think Jack's biggest, and I think we can all agree, his biggest fault of the entire movie was employing these fucking Ookey Bookey Kids. That was his biggest mistake, was asking them to do anything. That was a big mistake post town hall. I wanna say during Jack's research, a book he's reading is called Bobo Gets A Fire Truck, which I'm not sure it's gonna provide a whole lot of information. So maybe some of the mistakes were in the research.

Some of the mistakes were in the hirings. Some of the mistakes were apparently just not listening to Sally's vision or really listening to Sally at all when Sally's like, look as he's handing out jobs for Christmas. And everybody's like, what's going on with with Jack when he whips those the Christmas lights around the electric chair? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And then Well, the thing is though that Jack doesn't really have a plan. He just kinda has concepts of a plan. A super duper. He's overwhelmed by the amount of everything that is available to him.

And in that song, he goes from, like I mean, Christmas should belong to everyone to then maybe, like, a couple lines later that Christmas will be ours. It was it starts with a feeling it starts with a feeling of it should be something that belongs to everyone to just, like, I'm taking ownership of it. We'll take your cats. We'll take your cats. That, like, he's obsessively like, he's obsessively composed.

It's it's OCD, like, obsessive about Christmas to the point then that he just he starts spiraling into the song to getting into, like, oh, no. We're going the we're we're getting a little dark here of, like, oh, now you just you wanna take it and make it your own and make it for yourself. I think that's because he mostly, like, he gets it. He gets the spirit. He has the spirit.

He but he cannot properly impart it. They have not experienced what he's experienced, and I think that's the thing that he doesn't understand that and that it cannot be duplicated. Like, bless him for trying, but also, like, the collateral damage. Was it worth it? I mean, yeah, I think that he you know, like, this is where he becomes the antagonist of the story is that he doesn't.

He gets obsessed with wanting so desperately to change his life that he he loses sight of what Christmas actually is. And Sally sees that happening. She's really the only like, again, where we get the similar trope where it's like, oh, she's the one she's actually the smarter, more capable person in this relationship. Yeah. For most of the movie.

For a lot of the movie. Yeah. But that's, you know, that's a common trope of, like, the female, but she's still, like but whatever. It's 93. Moving on.

Yeah. Jack Jack's the pumpkin king, and you'll be sorry. But the 3 You'll see. The 3 trick or treater kids are just the worst. Oh, Lock, Shock, and Barrel?

The way they're even the way they sing kidnap the Santy Claus, the voices They're the they're the Halloween's, yeah, they're Halloween town's greatest trick or treaters. So, you know, they're, like, they're crafty because they they do they they do tricks and shit. So The tricksters. Yeah. Yeah.

It's like, oh, they'll be good for this super secret job of kidnapping Santa Claus. But it it seems like the way they talk about Oogie Boogie because he's, like, the boogeyman. Right. He seems like the town he's, like, the town outcast Right. Or something.

Yeah. Right. Don't get him involved. Because Don't you tell Oogie Boogie. Because he's a psychopath?

Or He that's gambling addiction. Like, he he's like he's addicted to casino games. Like It's bug bugs. In a blanket and he has a he's a bug bag. He's a bug bag.

He's a bug blanket. In a casino in his basement. I I will say the animation of Lock, Shock, and Barrel and that song of them traveling to kind of mild introduce Oogie Boogie and the bathtub that walks and all the stuff when they're gathering supplies, it's great. And Mhmm. When they return because of course they screw it up.

When they come back with the Easter bunny, like, I'm like Bunny. I'm like frown like smile laughing during that where I'm like, oh, poor bunny. Like, but I know. The joke still works. Like, I know it's coming, but visually, it's still very effective.

Take this bunny back. And that still shows, like, Jack has a heart. You know? He's like Yeah. I'm apologetic to the Easter bunny and, like, make sure you take Kim back to his home.

He's not. Instead of just like yeah. You think they do? What? I think they killed that Easter bunny.

I think they maybe I think Oogie Boogie was involved in the end, and, yeah, I don't think it went well. Easter is over. No. Because, I mean On the final day, he over. Jack shows a superiority over them by, like, completely scaring them with this face.

They go, blah. So he gets It's great. It does seem like they're more they're more willing to serve Jack than Oogie Boogie. But then they well, they they just they they they go beyond, I guess, they read between the lines of Jack's directions. Mhmm.

I I think they mostly serve themselves. Yeah. That's the thing that's interesting. They kinda, like, pick and choose. Okay.

Do people have a favorite song in this movie at any point in the movie if it's if it's come along or not? You're joking. You're joking. I can't believe my ears. Because that's coming up pretty soon.

It's pretty good. Mhmm. I'm joking. I'm joking. It's so hard to pick one song.

I mean, I love this is Halloween. Yeah. And, I also really love poor Jack. The, the What have I done? Oh, yeah.

That's a good song. Done. Most of most of the music, I think, is really good. I think making Christmas is my favorite, which is, like, that's where we're at in the movie. Yeah.

And I think also because my favorite character in the movie, and it's just because of the line where the guy just goes, it's time to party. Like, that is without a doubt favorite moment in the entire movie because that guy is definitely high on, like, god only knows what and just, like, ready to rock. I love the the back and forth showing, like, Christmas town getting ready for Christmas and then Halloween town getting ready for Christmas. And Yeah. Well, he has Sally make him a Santa suit and toys he delivers are not toys.

They're absolutely terrifying. Mhmm. Nightmares. Like, Santa A duck full of bullet holes with the vampires painting blood on it. That's great.

It's you know? Ben, like, that's that's the other one that's, like, right up there for me is the, I'm joking. I'm joking. No. I'm gonna Dylan, I'm gonna eat the whole thing.

This is very much like it does feel shoehorned. Like, where it's just like, bug bag. That's okay. The this, gambling addicted bug bag. Like, this is gonna be the thing in the in in the 22 minute episode of the rest of our movie.

If you want if you really if you if I want to justify it, I can. It is the if you wanna talk about Jack as our pro our main character and seeing the two different way different sides of where he could go. Sally is gonna pull him one way and the way that the the the style and who Oogie Boogie is is pulling it would pull him in a different way. And so, like, Oogie Boogie is that dark the darkest version of who Jack could be. Sure.

That's probably true. I hate to do this. It's just and and you probably can't do this in 76 minutes. But to me, the bad guys right there and doctor Finkelstein or doctor whatever, you've set up you've set this up pretty well. And him being 2 faced or Jack being like, I'm distracted from my Christmas thing because this person had this vision, and now you build the relationship through the writing.

And, yeah, the movie's 10 or 15 minutes longer. It's not the same movie at all, and it's probably not a musical anymore. So, like, I'm making a different movie. I'm not playing by the rules. So I I could I kinda see what you're saying.

The the fogginess and now what do people feel about Sally's song? I love Sally's song. Oh, Sally's song is great. I I I don't know why I didn't that's when I'm also a favorite. So Yeah.

Same. I mean It's so in her pocket. Right? Mhmm. And that's Catherine O'Hara singing.

Yes. Yeah. She's, again, one of the greats. She's just Catherine the great, if you will. Oh, wow.

But that, yeah, that song is is beautiful. And that's all I can say about it. Yeah. It's It it really is. No notes.

No notes. The feeling's all there. I guess you could kinda say, like, there's because, again, I think as the 3rd act kind of unfolds, it we get to a point where, like I said, it's kinda like, well, pull the rip cord as a writer, and we just have to get out of this. And the way we're gonna solve everything is just freeing Santa Claus now from Oogie Boogie. And that's Well, let's let's not jump over, Jack delivering presents, doing Yeah.

Doing his Santa Claus bit. Just wanna make sure we don't jump that. That shit is great. Yeah. Yeah.

It is. He looks great as Santa. His Santa suit is, like, blood red. It's so red. And the presents that he's dropping off are psychotic and hilarious.

Again, Bruce, you mentioned the bullet riddled toy duck flick kills me. The the Christmas wreath that comes alive and sort of strangling grandma, the the snake that they put around the Christmas tree, and then and it's like you they do all the setup, and then they go back and revisit all the homes that are now being attacked by these things. And I think my favorite, though, is the snake swallowing the Christmas tree with the kids standing there just in utter horror watching it just, like, frozen in terror. The lumps inside that snake too and are just so funny. Mhmm.

Oogie stops Sally because Oogie now has Santa. Mhmm. And Oogie stops Sally from saving him. We're missing a big story point. That's that's why I wanted to go back.

No, please. Because then we the police, they were like, someone's pretending to be Santa Claus and doing all this bad shit, and then they start firing cannons. Oh, yeah. And he thinks it's television. He was like, they that's because that's what he wants.

He wants to be loved. He wants people to like what he's doing, and that's he thinks he's doing a good thing. This whole time, he's like he's trying to make it his own and make and have ownership of it, but he's doing it. He wants people to like it as much as he thinks they will. So And then Who's a better Santa, Jack Skellington or Tim Allen?

Jack Skellington. Jack Skellington. Okay. Chris Sarandon slash Danny Elfman slash Henry Selick slash Tim Burton. Yeah.

But the moment when the cannons or missiles or whatever hits one of the reindeer, and then he realizes that they're trying to shoot him down. And, like, that's his turning point of, like and then crashes, but that's his turning point of, oh, I've made a horrible mistake. Yeah. Yeah. And then we have we have Jack.

We have the the song. We have, what have I done? And it's beautiful, like, you know, shame. He's he's he's in shame. He's like, find a deep cave to hide in.

In a 1000000 years, he'll find me only dust. And, you know, he gets sad and, like, kinda defeatist. Just it's all over. And then he has that quick turnaround. He was like, no.

We gotta get back and fix things. Like, I can still save this. We just have to put Santa Claus back, and then Yeah. Everything will be okay. He can fix what's happening.

Yeah. Character development happens through song. Mhmm. Yeah. Like like, that's how that's how most of yeah.

Exactly. That's how most of this movie works. Yeah. And then that's that's the jump to to Okeydokey in in the correlation with the Yeah. Story then.

I I think Jack also has the realization where he's like, oh, I'm the bad guy now. Yeah. And this is where he has the ultimate good guy moment. He's where he's like, oh, I fucked up. I have time to fix this.

I'll go save Santa, because now Sally's been captured, and Santa's still captured, and Jack is this incredible physical being. Like An an Oogie Boogie is just a bunch of bugs anyway. He's he's a bug bag. He had us like, enough wallowing in my own self pity. I did that.

Now let's fix the the problem that I started. I'd really love Oogie Boogie, and I'm I think it's like a character Cool character. Fun. Mhmm. The the casino aesthetic is confounding in a way that is So weird.

Still really fun, but I still like, oh, okay. I guess I could I can go ahead and and understand that. Hey, Disney. I know what you're trying to do here. You're trying to say, like, gambling addiction is anti holiday.

Like, no one can enjoy the holidays when you have a gambling addiction. Yeah. Well, being a Disney adult ain't much cheaper, is it? To be honest. Paul, please put down the shake weight.

Being a Disney adult ruins families. Please stop brandishing that shake weight at me. It keeps Hot topic in business. I'm feeling a little threatened right now. That shake weight's getting a little too close to the to the screen.

He's working it a little too vigorously. Anyway, the the final showdown is fun. The fight's fun. It's very fast. Yeah.

That's the movie has been kinda plotting for me for a while. Even when Jack's delivering presents, it's like almost everything almost has it's like they're like, let's just get one more beat, like, one more joke or one more thing on so much of the last 30 minutes of the movie. I was gonna say Sally has so much versatility in how she can do things, with how she escapes. Before she goes to Oogie Boogie, she jumps out the window of her her bedroom and just falls in pieces and sews herself back together, goes over there. And then to rescue Santa Claus, her hands crawl down the rope and untie while her leg is on the other side of the room distracting Oogie Boogie, and then she's in there putting the the rope and yeah.

She's very I Well, not give it up for Sally's. Well, and, like, the idea that, like, she's strong enough to put herself back together and keep going forward. That I think is the kinda clear thing about that character that is comes through the screen is, you know, the the strength to do for herself. And my favorite animation outside of honestly, I'm so glad you brought that up, Burris. When she falls apart and, like, that she's filled with leaves or she's filled with straw or she's filled with what and her Crumpled particles.

Back together is some of my favorite animation in the movie. My next maybe my favorite piece of animation in the movie, you know, Oogie Boogie somewhere in 3rd, because that casino song is really fun to watch. Right? Like and the casino fight stuff is fun to watch. But Blacklight scene.

Santa holding his nose close and, like, rocket farting his way out of Oogie Boogie's lair is a hilarious piece of animation. Oh, yeah. It's so funny. And his his underwear is, holly leaves Yeah. With the little berries.

Yeah. But, also, when he gets so, yeah, Oogie Boogie's the cord comes loose, and he's now running from Jack. And then he's up there, and he thinks he's safe. And Jack grabs a cord and wraps it around the egg beater type thing, and it he just turns into a bunch of bugs. And it all, you know, the fly, help me.

Help me. Yeah. You know? And then Santa Santa smashes the final bug. Jack is just like is just like, I'm so sorry.

And I'm really happy that we get to see Santa just, like, fucking pissed. Yeah. And then he's just like and he's like, I hope you have time to fix it. And he's just like, motherfucker. I'm Santa Claus.

I got I he was like, I got this. And then yeah. And then, nose farts some way, up and out. Well, Santa fixes everything in, like, a very quick fell swoop. And We have Jack Jack and Sally kiss, and it's over.

Like, it ends very abruptly. There's a very quick wrap up song that Jack is back. He's okay because everyone thought he was dead. And the town celebrates that, and then Sally is going off, you know, who's the conscience of this movie. And Jack has that, like, turning point, and it clicks for him what Sally means for him.

And then they have that lovely duet and the ending on that lovely, spiral slope in the moon that we know so well. They don't kiss, do they? No. They just They embrace. Yeah.

I don't like the kiss. This isn't this is rated PG, Paul. So is Earth Girls Are Easy, Ben. I I know. I don't understand the rating system at all.

Listen to our Earth Girls Are Easy episode, please. Full Bush. Whoopsie. Love that. Yeah.

The wrap up is super quick. Super quick. But Yeah. But it you know, I'm I'm so happy that this, like, one singular piece of art exists, and I'm really glad that Burton nor Disney have, like, tried to milk it for anything else. I was thinking about that while I was watching it.

And and knowing that Tim Burton has the copyright, and that's why this hasn't happened because I just watching, I was like, oh, man. There is a world where this would have been a Saturday morning cartoon and then a bunch of straight to DVD animated nightmare movies of nightmare before Thanksgiving, nightmare before Easter. Just it goes through every portal. Holiday and just and just run this thing into the ground Yeah. As a cash grab.

And I'm so glad that that never happened. So thank you to Tim Burton for for not allowing that. The merchandising is pretty out of control. I assume that's a Disney thing. I don't know.

But the merchandising is nuts. They merchandise everything. And they do they do that. Merchandise is fine. Again, being a Disney adult is more dangerous than a gambling addiction, y'all.

Get a shake weight. Like, do productive things with your time. Mhmm. The haunted mansion, though, is really fun with the nightmare overlay. It is.

I'm a fan. I enjoy it as well. Anything we missed? I have a question. Who's your favorite supporting Halloween town character?

It's time to party. That guy. So the is that is that is that one of the, is that one of the that's one of the vampires. Right? I I think he's just some random he has, like, a goatee.

He looks like he might be a demon. He has one behind in one other scene. The devil. He's like the devil. Yeah.

I think I like the saxophone player. I love the saxophone player too. Daddy. Yeah. I think it it might be for me.

I call him dead Pugsley. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

The little kid in the striped shirt who his mom has a leash for him, and his eyes are sewn shut. He has no eyes. Yeah. It's she's such an it's he's so happy. We miss the thing about how the doctor makes a new creation as Salve suggests, and it's his exact double that has half of his brain because all he ever wanted or loved or cared about was himself.

Yeah. And so he creates his exact double. And I found that, like, you know, kind of funny. Again, like, there's a lot of stuff in this movie that it's like there's a setup and a payoff. Yeah.

And he's also kind of a duck. Yeah. Like a phony duck, though. A phony duck. A real doctor?

Phony doctors. Phony doctors. Hello. He also has Igor. Yeah.

Well, Burris, you kicked us off. Why don't you, boot us out of here with your ranking? There's so much that I love about this movie, and a lot of it like, the design elements, the odd angles, and the spirals, and all of the the detail to the models and the worlds that they create, the the, yeah, the detail is just phenomenal. And the music and the soundtrack, it's a 5. It's a 5 snake swallowing, Christmas trees.

Deep throating Christmas trees. Okay. That's actually a shake weight in there, Boris. Yeah. The more you know.

Well, then there's there's a Christmas tree and a shake weight, honestly. Get your Nightmare on Elm Street shake weight from your local Disneyland. October 21st. I came pretty close to coming up to a 4.5. I'm gonna stay at a 4.

There is something about this that if Tim Burton had more control of writing and directed it and worked on distributing it himself like, it could have been Tim Burton's Megalopolis. But a movie I haven't seen. But, like, this movie is executed really, really well. And I think to its credit, I don't think we spent a ton of time talking about the visuals and how crafty it is. It's incredible.

I am gonna I I have to go, okay. What can I look at that's like this in whatever way that's, like, offbeat or Mhmm? You know? Wallace and Gromit is the absolute top tier. It is the platinum.

It is the gold standard for this type of thing for me. Right, wrong, whatever. That's how I feel. I would still watch the wrong trousers or a grand day out, spend a little less time, which is not much, but spend a little less time watching something like that than I would watching this again. And and again, it's like I it's a big part of me wants to just go, well, give it its due for being its own thing, but there's a lot of stuff where it hits chords for me and there's a lot of stuff where I'm like, meh.

4. Okay. Ben. I blacked out while you were talking there for a second. Yeah.

It goes on and on. What? No. Did I tell you about the time I met Jay Leno? I don't know.

Is that what I sound like? Yeah. I mean, I think, like, when I think about, I mean, this movie is pioneer in many ways. I think for me, the crowning achievement for Henry Selick and kind of in this ballpark, it for me is Coraline. Mhmm.

I'm kind of obsessed with Coraline, and I think I think it's a slightly better script. But no. I think it's a better script. But I think, like, this Coraline is a better script. Yes.

I think Coraline is a better script. Yes. Yes. Yes. But the music is so intoxicating.

The world is so intoxicating. Like you're saying, the designs, the craftsmanship, everything about this. You don't get Coraline without this. So I'm gonna I'm gonna stick at my 4, and I'm gonna change it. Do you remember when we see the band and, like, there's like a there's like a dummy in the stand up bass?

Oh, yeah. In the cello? He's a conductor. He's like, and a 1, and a 2. Yeah.

Yeah. Cell yeah. I'm gonna be for Hello. It's a bass. Conductor dummies.

This movie is so music forward Yeah. That the dialogue is more like the interludes because it's just the spacing between the music. It I like it. It's such it's such a song forward and soundtrack forward film. It's you're just yeah.

It's just it's really just and it that's kinda like how it was created too because the music came first, the songs came first, and then the script was written to connect the dots between those so that we can get to the songs that are pushing the story forward. Right. Yeah. And and it's all in some like, a level of sing song. Even when when the songs aren't the lyrics aren't rhyming.

Like, it's still, like, there's alliteration that happens and things like that where it's, like, yeah. I agree. I I just wanted to keep getting back to the songs most of the time. Speaking of songs, our, intro and outro music is Jamie Headwood. Matthew Foskett does our What Are You Doing, and What You've Been Watching, spooky season.

Chris holds does our fun facts theme. I do little little things in there. You might have heard other random shit that Paul puts a lot of hard work into editing. Burris, is there anything you want to tell anyone? They probably already know where to find you, but if you'd like, tell them again.

And this is for my birthday episode, so take Yeah. My birthday episode. I don't know. My Instagram is been here_ been there. I don't know.

That's that's that's my socials pretty much. Yeah. And follow us on Instagram. We're at reviewx2podcast. I wanna wish Ben Burris a big beautiful birthday.

This boy comes through here with great shit and great content and, You're talking about somewhere in time. I know. The gift that you all got from this guy that whether you know it or not is jury duty 2 back in jury and other things that you maybe don't know about. So I just want to specifically say, like, happy birthday, buddy. We love you.

And I Thank you, buddy. Also wanna mention, please, if you haven't already, listen to me on Back to the Blockbuster talking about a movie you listened to us talk about earlier this month, The Guest. Back to the Blockbuster which I think Ben, you've been talking to them as well. Right? They yeah.

Yeah. They rescheduled me. So maybe I'll I might make an appearance. To our guest at Burris, thank you for bringing Nightmare Before Christmas. It was a pleasure to watch it and discuss it with you, gentlemen, as always.

Always a pleasure. Indeed. Keep tuning in for spooky season all month logs. Thanks, boys. Stay in shape.

Get that shake weight.