Alien3 / Pauly Gets Irregular (Guest: Moses Olson)

It’s Ken Vs Guile (pick Paul or Ben for whichever) in this no holds barred, knock down, drag out, rootin, tootin, scootin, hoot of a wrap to Spooky Season with our guest writer/director/actor Moses Olson! We proudly honk the honk, cause we fully tonk the tonk through his choice, a rare sequel, Alien3! (D. David Fincher ((don’t remind him)) 1993). We talk through this complicated…self hating (probably?), and strange looking hodge podge of a movie as long as Paul has a breath in his body. An episode that you can rest assured is good, cause it’s mullet era Van Damme approved.

**All episodes contain explicit language**
Artwork - Ben McFadden
Review Review Intro/Outro Theme - Jamie Henwood
"What Are We Watching" & "Whatcha been up to?" Themes - Matthew Fosket
"Fun Facts" Theme - Chris Olds/Paul Root
Lead-Ins Edited/Conceptualized by - Ben McFadden
Produced by - Ben McFadden & Paul Root
Concept - Paul Root

Transcript

Hey, everybody. It's your co host, Paul. Just to let you know, we have some new equipment at the Review Review. I'm also a dumb and I don't know how to use it. So if there are any issues, blame me, the dumb.

Hey. It's Paul, your co host again. Just so you know, the subject of this episode for our finale of spooky season contains extremely dark subject matter and situations that are not appropriate or comfortable for all listeners. Consider yourself warned. Hey, everybody.

Welcome to the review review. This is a movie cop I'm gonna start that over. It's a movie cop cast. The movie it's a movie cop cast. We only only talk about movie cops.

There are none in this movie. Welcome to the review review. My name is Ben. I'm a co host of this podcast. My name is Paul.

I am an additional co host of the same podcast. And if you're tuning in for the first time, this is a movie podcast. So if you like movies, you're in the right place. We typically bring on a guest and that guest brings us a movie. That movie needs to be about 7 years old or older and usually not part of a franchise, but, you know, we're in charge, so what whatever.

And also, this movie that we're gonna be talking about today, falls into a little pocket, because we've done a couple of others within this franchise. So But if you got into a kangaroo, what would that look like? What would that It looked like Ray Gun. Anyway No. It's Xeno breaking.

We review re we review that movie. We watch it, and we come together. We discuss, and then we see if our opinions have changed. And today, we have a very great guest, a return guest, close friend of mine, mister Moses Olsen. Hello.

Hello. Gents, again, thank you for letting me come back. I was a little sad. Our first episode together at the time was your longest episode, and, that record has been broken. By no means do I wanna match that.

But, you know, I had a little street cred But you would've been in these digital streets for a minute. It's true. And now it's gone. Yeah. Moses was here for our mother episode.

Listen to our mother episode, won't you? Moses is a very talented filmmaker, storyteller, and someone that I am always looking up to, and inspired by. And I'm so excited to have you here today. That is the most wonderful, amazing intro that a human being could ever receive. And and, again, you know, I said this the very first time we got together for this and this time around as well.

Like, this is totally my happy place being with 2 amazing film nerds who also happen to be great human beings. He doesn't know me well. Just a pleasure. He, dude, he just watched my kid for a little bit. So Can I he's a dad about town?

Truly? Yes. Killing it. Amazing. And, yeah.

So truly, truly, truly an honor to be here and and such a pleasure to be invited back. Dude, thank you so much. You fly. Moses, is there anything that you're working on these days or anything that's keeping you creative? Yeah.

Last time we chatted, we were prepping for the Nightwing stuff, which I will be I'll be back in your your neck of the woods next month to jump into that. So I'll just I'm gonna knock on wood, and we've dealt with a lot of craziness with that particular project. So it'll be really cool to shoot with a large significant portion of the cast, like, multiple cast members. I've shooting with my Batman, shooting with my Batgirl, shooting with my Alfred. So, the Nightwing project is just around the corner.

And if you need a Pied Piper. Yes. Oh, we're going deep pools. I love it. I love it.

Let's just go flash villains. If you need a mirror master Mirror master, I, you know, I think you've got it. I'm good. Forget about it. And then, yeah, wrapped a fantasy show a little bit ago, and I'm in the middle of a really beautiful project that I'm really, really proud of.

I'm staring at a lot of text and transcriptions right now, but it's a beautiful documentary, that we're working on in the city of White Center about the gentrification and displacement of these individuals and peoples in the area. And so I've been running around the city and shooting with an amazing shooter and amazing, assistant. My postproduction dude is a person I've worked with for over 10 years, and it's just been a very emotional, deep kind of experience as you listen to these people share their stories. I'm super interested in that for a million reasons, but partly, like, being native to the Pacific Northwest and having lived in this area for a clump of time. White Center is fascinating.

Fascinating. How how how long is this thing? Like, about do you have an idea? Is there an assembly cut, which we did not watch? But do you have an idea?

Our game plan is to make a few episodes. Okay. The beauty of it is the project itself is being funded by the CDA, which is the Community Development Association in White Center that also supports the local businesses and residents. Oh, sure. Also, just purely that's just that's where the budget comes from.

Beyond that, they've been very hands off in allowing us to do the work and Awesome. Just really passionate about just kinda supporting us. The crazy thing is, you know, a project like this, because it's coming through a nonprofit, don't have the biggest budget, so you have to jump into the project with a lot of love. And my whole team is very much in that and the the team members that are, will be joining us in our postproduction process. But, basically, if anyone has never worked on a documentary or wants to know more about working on documentaries, the easiest statement, which is also the very difficult thing about working on documentaries, is you're packing for a trip that you have no idea how long it'll be.

Oh. So Me. We we continually say we have an idea of how many episodes we're kinda structuring out, and, obviously, there were contracts and things like that built. But what we are really gunning for is essentially my logic is about 7 minute episodes, about 6 to 7, minute episodes. We actually have a debut at the end of November, like a big showcase Oh, right.

Where we'll play one of the episodes and do a kind of a beautiful sizzle piece, in in front of, like, kinda major community members and whatnot. Please tell me you go into the amazing food culture in White Center because food in White Center is amazing. Food in White Center is amazing, and I think it's, the cool thing about White Center is because you've got so many immigrant families Mhmm. That do legitimate food of their culture. Yeah.

Very often. And you don't get to see it very often in Right. In Washington. Right? Right?

Or even just in general. Right? We're in a space now where there's a lot of fusion type foods, and everyone's trying to do the take on Americana or whatever. And instead, you're like, oh, I want Laotian food. You're gonna see that right in a lot of really amazing islander food.

Even though I've been running around and sweating and doing all this stuff in the city, probably put on weight just from being at these local restaurants and getting to to meet the people. But the stories are amazing, and, the team is amazing. And I'm really excited about that. That sounds awesome. Yeah.

I'm super into that. Yeah. I was quiet about it, I think, the first time we chatted. Yeah. It was one of those projects I didn't wanna talk about because we're still you know how it is.

No. We can't do that. I'd been talking about it even in that like, I was in meetings for this project then when we had first met. It was it's been going on that long. We actually did actually meet again.

Listener, Moses and I are occupying the same space. Yes. We've never physically met before this, and it had to happen as we're doing a part 3. Like, it has to be we're a it's a sequel. Right?

A sequel to a sequel. We gotta keep We haven't ratchet up. Mentioned we haven't mentioned the movie yet. I think did we say Alien 3 ever? No.

Not yet. Until that very moment that you said it. No one looked before they hit play. You know that. Is it alien 3 or alien divided by 3?

The alien to the power of 3? Power of 3? What is 3rd power. Alien You know, I'm glad that you pointed that out because I was I hadn't thought about it in that way in so long. And when I pulled it up, I was like, what is up with this?

It's like a Fincher thing. It's like 7. It's like 7 n? What? Yeah.

Like, what what's going on here? Do you think when they had to register 7, did they have to spell out 7 n, or did they register it with the number they probably just registered with a number in there. I bet you they probably did it both ways. I bet you they did it both ways for international and whatever it else it might be. We're gonna talk a lot about Fincher.

But before we get there, what you've been doing? You know, I just want to talk about how I was driving up here. The beauty of the state of Washington, holy shit. It was, like, shock to the system almost. Drove by Tacoma screw.

We all know about that famous lawsuit. Drove by the Tacoma Dome Mhmm. Which was great. Drove by an OnlyFans. The aroma of Tacoma?

Yep. I've had a lot of potatoes today. So, Moses, that's me, not Tacoma. I'm sorry. And, no, I it also hit me.

I guess I've never thought of it when I drove by exit 111. That's Yum. And I just wanna say shouts to all our Ramsters out there listening. I know we probably have quite a few. Shouts to Jay z, you know, copper hats and nails on the roofs and the whole thing.

Well, that's enough for me. Next person. Yeah. I'm still being a dad. And when we've had done the first episode together it's funny coming back to a thing.

The last time I was here, we, you know, we talked about how I was just starting to be able to watch movies again. We are now at a place where our little one is, as Paul has seen, kinda running around, has a personality, is he just hit kind of that almost tornado twos He's a cool guy. Vibe. Yeah. He's pretty chill even for our level of understanding that he's got a little bit of sass is amazing because he's a very chill very very chill, very sweet.

I'm scared because he was very fascinated in watching Paul set up. And I I Oh, not another podcast Yeah. No. Son, don't choose something else. Don't choose this.

Don't take the path of your father. No industry jobs, please. But, no, he's he's amazing. So, you know, we're just at a really amazing place with him. You do a really cool thing, like, good job of, like, keeping, like, a photo album, like, photos every day and whatnot of, like man, I can't imagine what that's gonna be like at some point in life to look back on that, especially with him.

Thank you. Yeah. At some point, that is I mean, I wish someone had done that for me. We're we're trying to find that balance of if you notice even the whole time I was with him, I never had my phone on. No screens.

Yeah. Yeah. You're not That's really diligent about that. It's good. We're still doing the no screens thing, and I a lot of oftentimes, I actually miss recording a moment or capture because I we tried not to have our, you know, our stuff on us.

For you. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's been it's been kind of this, interesting balance, but I I appreciate that. You're actually, like, a few friends have brought that up.

I think that's great. Really be benefit from it in the future. Like Yeah. Think about how when we were kids and, like, if we did something interesting, our parents were like, hold on. Hold on.

Get put put this thing on their shoulder, the bazooka gun on their shoulder. Like, hold on. Like, oh, no. It's rewind it. Hold on.

Hold on. Gotta gotta record. You know? And it's like This franchise that's so good at looking forward, the alien predator universe in general, and there's a dude at the end of alien 3 who has this giant home camcorder trying to climb a gate, and you're like, nope. Not.

That wasn't it. Missed on that one. Those of you that did not see Ben's amazing, amazing physical performance. Amazing physical stuff. He's holding a giant camera.

I saw him try to focus the camera, push the buttons on the camera. Y'all didn't see it, but it was amazing. I felt the Weyland Yutani, like, Weyland Yutani cameraman number 2 or whatever. Only the best from Weyland Yutani. That's what we say here.

From Macomb OnlyFans. At some point, someone's gotta be like, you know, I think the Sweta Nootani might might not be the best person to talk to my boss. Good. I don't know. We've talked about sports on this podcast for a little bit.

We haven't talked about how crazy I am into fantasy football, which takes over a part of my brain during this time of year. And so, yeah, like, fantasy football podcast, fantasy football research, fantasy football Paul and I are in a league together, and our our league chat got spicy. Oh, yeah. A little a little spicy. A little spice on it.

A little paprika. Yeah. And, yeah, so I've been I've been you know, it's fun. And it's one of those things for me where it's like, it it gives you a reason 1st off, it gives you a reason to, like, stay in contact with certain people, which is really cool. And, like, you can, like I have 3 different leagues, and I can, like I have 3 different league chats, and they're all from different parts of walks of my life.

And so it's cool to have, like, these strings to connect to people. But, also, like, it makes do you care more about the game in a weird way? It's gambling. You have something right on it. Like Literally is.

It's like Yeah. Whether there's money in the game or not, like, there's pride on it. But not even that. Like, you're watching individual players and their successes in a way that you wouldn't if you didn't care about. Like, oh, who's that guy?

That guy, I'm gonna, like and you go to check see if he's on your waiver. You know? Like, you're watching for things that you don't necessarily watch for if you're if you're just rooting for your team. And no no nothing against that because I also just root for the Seahawks. So, I've been having fun playing some fantasy football.

Side note, this guy does amazing write ups. Does a great job running a league that I've been in for a couple years. I have a blast. It's a great my bat my Batman villain write up? As a literal walking Batman villain?

Yes. I Who did I who I did? I I forgot who I told you gave your team. Oh, I can't remember in this moment. I can't either.

But I had a really fun time with that. I compared all the teams in league to a Batman villain. Before we move on. And you can check you can check on this while I'm asking this question if you like because I'm not gonna remember. We're all actors here.

I know you like to look at yourself on television, you 6 and a half a bitch. So look at this. Yeah. Does do people have a dream role within some sort of, you know, construct or a certain genre? Just something that that crosses your mind that you'd really like to tap into.

That's a that's a broad question. It kind of is. Yeah. Are you meaning specifically comic books? Let me let me set it up.

My dream would be to play, like, a Lex Luthor type character. Someone who's like, I'm the smartest. I'm the best. There's this invader that's here from another planet that has untapped power that's not understood. You're all crazy.

I'm right. Mhmm. That kind of hubris, like, I I I would love to play a role like that. Oh, man. If we're putting it out there, I love playing mute characters.

I love playing characters that don't have to talk a lot, so it's a little bit of my obsession. So if we were going with, like, the perfect type of stuff, like, put me as a silent character in, like, a prime era John Woo movie. Oh, cool. I'd be, yeah, I'd be the happiest kid on the planet. That's awesome.

Do you do you have a a bent something you aspire to or, like, a a deep dark secret or a weird thing that you'd love to do? Man, I mean, I feel like it's tough because I know what I'm good at, and I know what what I would want. And those two things are a little different. Yeah. I mean, I feel like and even when I did this in in a RPG, I feel like I do pretty well with roguish, like, roguish heroes.

Knave. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. And I I feel like I I'm decent enough at that.

I'm not attractive enough, but I'm decent enough in the comic town. No. Shut up. I'm having you take over for every single Zachary Levi role right now. You're better than him in Tangled.

You're better at Shazam. Dude, I think being Shazam would be pretty dope. Told Moses this. Oh, wait. I told it on our chat.

We all know that Zachary Levi sucks now. But, he he always kinda sucked. He always But but Shazam too, I saw him in the theaters. And about about halfway through it, I had to poop. And I was like You didn't come back.

I wouldn't poop. And I was like, you know what? I think I'm just gonna leave. Shazam. That's a hell of a Shazam.

That's how bad that movie Okay. Was. But let's not talk about that movie because we didn't watch that movie recently. I didn't did you? Tell me no.

Tell me what have you been watching. I wanna know what Moe has been watching. Never interrupt me when I'm talking to myself. I saw Tyson beat Strings on TV. Now that I get to be back in kind of film mode, I go and because of Letterboxd, I end up being in I catch myself in, like, what would you call it?

Like, little portals of things. So I'll keep Oh, yeah. I'll be stuck in a genre or I'll be stuck with a particular type of gets you. Well, for me though. Right?

It's like no no algorithm. It's just me going, I wanna watch more of this thing. It might I am my own algorithm. Woah. I'm curating for myself, sir.

Weird. Yeah. I've been probably watching a lot of subtitled stuff. Nice. A lot of Hong Kong cinema, a lot of OG era stuff.

Cynthia Rothrock and Michelle Yeoh and, you know, I'm looking at my list, old school Donnie Yen. And I kinda capped it off the other day by watching Boy Kills World. Oh, how was that? On. Both y'all are filmmakers.

Right? It came and went. It got no love. But you know what? Now that I'm saying it out loud, maybe it affected me by saying a thing that I love.

Skarsgard's performance, obviously, he's mute in the film and was just astounding. The H. Sean Benjamin voice over thing is a lot, but but also Does it feel like a like a ploy, like a stunt casting kind of? The film, I think, is has been slightly divisive for some people, and I think that it's a film that makes a lot of strong choices. And I'll be really honest, if you do end up watching it, for me about the first half, I was not super into like, I wasn't clicked onto the gears.

I was just, like, okay, I guess, like, everybody seems to be having fun. And then about the halfway point, I kind of locked in somehow. But I will say this, the the thing that I really, really enjoyed about it was and I know we've talked about it before. I've heard y'all kinda talk about it, and I know we've definitely chat about it in our own kinda thread combos is there's something really lovely when you watch a film or watch a filmmaker specifically just kinda go for broke and make make really strong decisions. Uh-huh.

And the joy of watching a movie where you're like, oh, that that group of people chose to make that thing. This is the thing that they chose set out to make. You know, I had the pleasure So not what we watched? Not what we watched at all. And and even to to start off that kind of wave of stuff, Ben and I in during film school watched Rebel Ridge, awful ton.

Amazing movie. Yeah. But, again, right, we there was so much of our kinda ongoing conversation commentary on just this feels like a movie that he set out to make. Boy kills world really feels like that. It's it's a little silly.

It's very energetic. Probably for those people that love action movies, all the action design feels like the first time in a long time in a western film where whatever they previsced, that's what they shot. Oh, cool. Okay. Yeah.

Kind of insane. But it's totally They didn't, like, bring down the imagination of it. Like, the zaniness that you just went for. Both of those words are totally that film. Great.

Okay. Imaginative. It is very zany. You've seen the film before, but it just kinda works. It was it was very fun.

It was very easy to watch. A friend of mine, Sarah, would call it a bop. She young? No. She's our age.

Yeah. Yeah. What? Yeah. Yeah.

That's just she got the She has the rib. She just yeah. She got the lingo there. She's got the lingo down. Alright.

But yeah. So it was it was a box, and it was super fun and a very easy watch. But yeah. Definitely, I think that fell under my, like, Hong Kong, Yen Wu Ping. This one, the actor Scratch an itch.

Y'all saw the raid, the actor that played Mad Dog. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yayun is in the movie. So you've you've got a lot of, yeah, there's a lot of cred Okay. In the flick. So it was very easy watch. And all of this for sake of preparing for Nightwing again Yeah.

Sure. So it's it's homework, you know, it's but it's also stuff I love. And so watching, you know, the Samo Hungs, the Yen Wu Pings, the Corey Yens, all these amazing choreographers and what they're doing, you know, and most of the time, you're kind of that old era. Again, they go really hard. They're doing this ridiculous stuff.

But, yeah, that's kinda where That's great. I love that. Yeah. Ben? Yes.

Me? What do you watch? Well, we all watched this movie, Alien 3. I don't know about you guys. I watched it.

I don't own this movie, so I watched this on Disney Plus. And right after it ended, it said, like, would you like to like, one of these would you like to be interested in? And one that popped up was pray. And I was like, yeah. Fuck hell.

Yeah. I wanna watch pray. Oh, yeah. Just rewatch it. Why not?

So I rewatched pray. And fuck, man. God, that is such a good movie. It is a shame that it didn't get a cinematic release with a slightly bigger budget Facts. Because some of the CG animals is rough.

But in terms of what I want from, I guess, you know, what we call, IP, SQL, what whatever you wanna call it, re I don't whatever you wanna call it. This is the direction that every everybody take notes is what I'm saying. Is when you're talking about, like, oh, we're gonna make another, alien movie or another predator movie or whatever. It's like, yes. But why?

What is the what is the angle you're coming at this one with, and what is what is different? What is the different perspective that you're putting on it? Because Prey, to me, is less a predator movie and more a period movie in some ways and a survival movie in in a similar way to, like It's telling a different story. Yeah. Yeah.

It's similar ish to, like, the revenant in a way where you're like, this is someone who's just trying to survive. You know? And I guess that's what predator is when you think about it. But when you take away the sort of machismo of of predator and, you know, sort of what every predator movie has kind of I won't say that all of them have missed the beat. I mean, like, the the I really didn't like the Shane Black one.

No. And I I I didn't mind Predators. The is that the one with agent Brody? Sam, I'm sitting next to a big fan of that movie. Predators.

Yeah. Yeah. I like I I think that movie is pretty good. And I think it it does something different. Prey is just like, again, kind of calling back to predator.

For lack of a better term, mano y mano. Right? It's this person versus this thing. The way that it introduces the predator, the way it does the sort of, like, the correlation with other, predators, like Earth predators Yeah. And showing us, like, our how this grizzly bear gets its fucking shit ripped out.

Yeah. No. Literally, when he whips out, it's it's It literally does and pours blood all over it while it's invisible and, makes it seen. It's also gorgeously shot. Yeah.

I I think a movie. Trackenberg is I I love 10 Cloverfield Lane. That's another one that was just, like he gets that these are character driven. We want the we love the sci fi. We love the all that.

We what we really care about is is the people. Right. So And so, like yeah. Anyway No. No.

No. No. Kinda what you're saying is, like, you know, we started out at one thing, and then it it builds up, it builds up, it builds up, and then it gets kinda stripped back down, way back to the nuts and bolts even further back than the first movie. And as you said, like, it becomes, like, this more character driven, emotionally driven, survival driven thing than, like, this thing about dudes, like, flexing or whatever. It's more about the the concept in the narrative, like, really sings for you.

Yeah. And I think, you know, sequels are tough. Right? Because Yeah. Especially sequels if you wanna say, like, legacy sequels, you know, or what are you doing with it that's not just nostalgia based, I guess?

It's not just pushing the alien out of the airlock over. Or you but, like, again, like, what are you doing to get me into this that's not just like, hey. You remember this thing. Right? Come on come on over.

You know? It's like it's like, what are you doing that's gonna, keep me more, engaged and want me to see more? And I believe, if I'm remembering correctly, Trackenberg's making another one. He is. Yeah.

With, I think, Ellie Fanning. Dakota? What is the what are you implying? With El Fanning or Dakota Fanning. I think it's another throwback time piece.

Man, you know what I really wanted? After I saw Prey, I was like, fuck yeah. Let's put a predator into samurais. Yes. Let's give Yeah.

Yeah. You know what I mean? That would've been I I have a feeling where we may see, like, mafia. We may see, like, some I think we'll end up getting a lot of everything. Yeah.

I think it's working enough for them. And I I love that you're praising Trachtenberg as well because I was we were trying not to talk too much about things around this, but obviously, aliens, predator, the franchise of the dark horse comics. A lot of stuff. Right? There are lunch boxes.

There are action figures. Video games. They're video games. But what I love that you just shared that about Trachtenberg as well because I 10 Cloverfield Lane, I remember the first time, and I don't watch a lot of trailers now, but that was one of those moments I remember the first time I saw the the trailer for 10 Cloverfield Lane. And I was like, that is a freaking well cut trailer.

And then when I saw the movie and this is one of the best. I say this any of the people of color know what I'm saying when I say this, like, when you make stank face the whole movie because it's just so dope. Oh. And it makes me just wanna I love it, but I also hate it because it makes me not wanna make movies anymore. Right?

Like, 10th load of the game kinda do Yeah. Yeah. Where you're watching it and you're just like, this is so good. You figured this out. I hate you.

I love you. Can we be friends? But somehow this works. Yeah. It's so amazing, and I love that.

And I think Prey very much fits that model. We're all saying it Mhmm. To go, yeah. Like, aliens are cool, and this is all cool, and this is genre stuff. But, like, can we care about Strip it back.

The characters. Yeah. Like facts. And it and it's not even a matter of stripping it back always. Right?

Like Yeah. But the fact that it is the most interesting when we're sitting with this, she's just a girl with dreams. You know? Like and I'm with you. Yeah.

Everything you said, brother, I'm I'm I'm right behind you. I watched the new Salem's Lot film on Oh, yeah. Max. How was it? I have read that book.

It's a pretty okay vampire book. It's not bad. I like it. People who listen to this know that I like Stephen King. Do you have a shirt that says I love Stephen King?

Hey. Or Stephen King Lewis? Yeah. You looked. So, yeah.

I am waiting up for my shirt to show up from Redbubble. You can shop it on our store where you get our merch, which is pretty cool. Not a sponsor. But I liked it okay. Okay.

It's one of those movies that definitely is like, you kinda understand this. Right? You you get the rules. Right? You get why why this is how you you get it.

There you go. And it's one of those movies that is very quick to lean on computer effect. Similar to the movie we just watched where it's like, oh, you're leaning too hard on that for too long. Why are you doing that? And there's a little bit of that, but there are some also, like, some dope effects, like, because it goes back to a lot of the old rules about vampires.

Like, crucifixes are extremely effective where it's, like, in Blade, it's, like, you know, trying to ice skate uphill here. Not interested. No no effects. But they glow in this really cool way in Salem's Lot. And it's got some good performances and it's got some some stuff about it moves at a good clip.

But overall, especially as we're in spooky season, just rewatch monster squad. It's fine. Question for you because first off, did you see Midnight Mass? Yes. I have.

Because I feel like That's a new version of Salem's Lot. Exactly. Yeah. That's kind of what I was getting to. Yeah.

Yeah. Outside of this, I'd love after we get done recording, I just finished all the Dark Tower books. Oh. And I need to pick your brain about that because I've been dying to talk have you read Not in a long time. I've only read the gunslinger in the la that's the only one I've read in the last 15 years.

Okay. I just I've been dying to talk about it with someone and none of the ways of yeah. Flanagan's making a Amazon series. Is he really? Yep.

Yeah. As well as Exorcist as well as supposedly Nightmare on Earth. But Amazon Amazon took him from Netflix so that they he could make this, you know, Dark Tower series. Yeah. I've got lots of feelings about that, but I feel like we would I would take this new podcast.

I have a lot of feelings about the books, and I you know, it was one of those heavily lauded series, and I had already have feelings about Stephen King's writing already. So going into it, if you haven't read it in a long time, I I don't wanna just I read the gunslinger not too long ago, and then I watched the really bad movie. Hour. I saw the really bad movie without context. Look.

There's a lot of good Stephen King writing out there. Richard Bachman. Stuff about it can be strange and can be, upsetting or whatever, but it can also be very entertaining. You never know. Just the facts.

Archaeology is the The movie we watched is alien alien alien to the 3rd power, so maybe 9 times. Alien 3. This is a Brandywine production produced also and distributed by 20th Century Fox. This is rated r? It came out in 1992 and is 1 hour and 54 minutes if you didn't watch the assembly cut.

Ben, which one did you watch? I don't know. It felt much longer than that. But, that could be just And you did then. The assembly cut, which is 2 hours and 37 minutes and not approved by the director is not the director's cut.

Ask him or don't. Probably better not to. Budget of this movie was $50,000,000. Adjusted, that's 112,200,000, 11/22. Opening weekend in the US was May 22, 1992.

It made 19,400,000. That's 43,500,000 adjusted. Final gross in North America was 55.4. That's 124,300,000 adjusted. And the final gross worldwide cleaned up worldwide.

159.8 adjusted. That's 358.5. Other releases on this day, far and away. And a little movie called Encino Man. Cornish is favorite time.

Yeah. Oh, it Weekend top 5, something that will be on our spin off podcast, only about cop movies. Lethal Weapon 3, those armor piercing bullets. You gotta watch out for those. This film was a number 2.

That was a good Clapton. Far and Away, Encino Man, and Basic Instinct, the top 5 films of this year domestic were Batman Returns. Listen to our Batman Returns episode, please. It's so fun and good. Don't tax my gate so hardcore, Craster.

Chip don't. Also, Paul, I looked up I looked up what, villain I compared your team to, and it was Catwoman. Thank you. That makes a lot of sense. I should've remembered that.

Lethal Weapon 3, Sister Act Home Alone 2 Lost in New York, not featuring former SAG union member actor that is in that movie Tom. And a movie called Wayne's World. Dude, dude, dude, dude, dude. From this year, keep making that noise if you don't mind. Winding.

Fire Walk With Me. Fire Walk With Me. Look for the clues. Did you have the same dream with the girl with the backward talking and the flaming cards? I'll drive.

Innocent blood, trespass doctor Giggles, a great, like, Freddie rip off. Hoffa, rapid fire, deep cover, pet cemetery 2, even though it says pet seminary 2, midnight mass 2, And Under siege. They want to fly. Letterbox average on the swim to a point Moses wanted to stay single on under siege. Brandon Lee's rapid fire?

Brandon Lee's rapid fire. Bet. Just making sure. With Brandon Lee and the Powers booth. RIP, Brandon Lee and Powers booth.

Powers booth. Letterbox average 2.8. Follow Ben. Atrunbmc. Follow me.

Paul Paul. Atpaulaxbadly. Syskel and Ebert, 2 thumbs down. Ebert, slightly reluctantly, apparently. Rotten Tomatoes, 44%.

Metacritic, 59. Like, you don't see that, like, imbalance of those two things a lot, and that's, like, close to a pretty positive Metacritic score. Award wins and nominations, this was an Oscar nominee for best visual effects by some of God. And this, was nominated for 2 Saturn Awards for acting for Sigourney Weaver and one Charles s Dutton. Ben, I'm gonna pass the rock to you.

When did best visual effects become a category, and how drunk were they? A was it aliens maybe or Robocop? Some in the late eighties. But, yeah, they they had to be wasted. It was like a what dreams may come thing.

It must be the same academy members. It's one guy. Yeah. Vincent Ward's cousin. The director of this movie is one David Fincher.

Before I say anything, everyone, favorite Fincher. Me? I will go with Zodiac. 7. I'm a social network guy.

We cover the gamut. We did. The writer he also did Mank and Gong Girl on many others. Writers are Vincent Ward who did the story. He also did Vigil, David Guyer, RIP, The Money Pit, Walter Hill, Red Heat, Larry Ferguson, The Hunt for Red October, Dave O'Bannon, and Ronald Shussett for the characters.

Director of photography was Alex Thompson, r I p. Mister Destiny, Demolition Man, Executive Decision. There's a lot of d's in there. Music, Elliot Goldenthal, Public Enemies, SWAT. Is he gonna be on our cop podcast?

Should be. Yeah. And cop for all are coming. Copcast Copcast. And Frida.

And Producers And Heat. Mhmm. If you did Heat If you're doing the cop cast, come on now. Yeah. Paul, how did you not how did you not how did you not?

I wish you David Geyer, Walter Hill, Gordon Carroll, RIP, Blue Thunder, and Sigourney Weaver, who also produced Alien Resurrection. In this movie, Sigourney Weaver, back again as Ripley, Heartbreakers, Igby Goes Down, and Gorillas in the Mist. Those are not bad gorillas. Those are good gorillas. Those are good gorillas.

Are good gorillas. Are Fosse watching. Fosse, Fosse, Fosse. Well done. Charles Dance, otherwise known as Chuckie Tango Chuckie Tango, baby.

Plays Clemens, the golden child, the imitation game, last action hero. Listen to our last action hero episode from our blockbuster Bonanza Summer, please. You have a weekend to burn. Listen to it. It's great.

It's only 4 and a half hours. Charles s Dutton, a lot of char Chuckies in this movie. Don't fuck with it, Chuck. Plays Dylan, Rudy, Gothica, and Legion. Paul McGahn plays Golic, Empire of the Sun, With Nail and I, Queen of the Damned.

With Nail and I is a favorite little hidden gems. I gotta watch it again. I haven't watched it in a long time. It's a great little character piece. Brian Glover, RIP, plays Andrews in American Royal from London, Kafka, Royal Deceit, Halt McKeownie plays junior, Fight Club, Another good adventure.

Shot Caller, Wrath of Man. Pete Posway, r I p. David, he is from in the town, in the name of the father, The Usual Suspects. He's also in Romeo plus Juliet, Baz Luhrmann's. He plays Oh, try a spin off from last action movie.

Lawrence. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna recognize that comment. Lance Hendrickson plays Weyland. We finally got figured out who Weyland is because that's what we all cared about. Right?

Plays hard or he's also in Hard Target, Stone Cold, The Terminator, and Alien dollar sign. Oh, yes, please. Talking about John Woo. Hard Target was John Woo's entry into the US. And that movie, like, you know, has some predator type whatever.

Has everyone seen that? Do people like that? I think that movie is great. It's one of the incredible, like, bad genre movies that is so polished and beautiful. I adore Hard Times.

It's so good. Lance Anderson is awesome in it. It. Black hole for me in my cinematic, action genres. Yeah.

Ben, here here's the deal. If a movie starring Jean Claude Van Damme Yeah. And Van Damme has a mullet Uh-huh. Good to go, bro. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. I will I'm I'm gonna write that down. Mulleted Van Damme, you get I'm in. Budweiser commercials.

Or was it Budweiser? Timecop. You get Timecop, obviously. Yeah. Then you get hard target.

Dude, yeah. You're You're set. Good to Budweiser commercials. Fat in a 1,000. What you see, it's a body crafted to perfection.

A pair of legs engineered to defy the laws of physics and a mindset to master the most epic of splits. Fun facts. Fun facts. Fun facts, everybody. It's fun fact time.

So the original director from Alien, direct Ridley Scott, turned down the chance to direct. Scott and later, Rene Harlin, who I feel like I've talked a lot about with Paul Yeah. Both thought the 3rd film should explore the origin of the xenomorph species. This concept was deemed too expensive by David Guyer and Walter Hill since most special effects work at the time still had to be done practically instead of by computer generated imagery. So Scott declined to return, and Harlan later quit the film because they found alternative concepts too repetitive.

Scott ultimately got his wish with the stunning, amazing Prometheus. Beautiful to look at. Very beautiful to look at. And look, I can't even say the the film without making your face, alien covenant. So just just to kinda go back to our previous conversation briefly, this is a lesson in when you're going into an IP thing.

What not to do, for me, is what Prometheus and Alien Covenant do with the just and especially for me, Prometheus is just the most beautiful train wreck of a movie. It just I was so flabbergasted by the end of how disappointed I was because of the lack of character. From a guy who introduced us to Ripley, that is just a such a character drip. I don't know. The Prometheus was just such an an offense to me.

Dude, how are those smart people so dumb? That's the thing that is so hard to get your stomach about that movie. And that's the thing. Right? It's the it's the, it's the horror trope, which he starts to somehow get sucked into, which is basically, like, the only way this plot can continue is by the characters not playing to their intelligence.

Right. And so their the plot has progressed through characters making dumb choices. And in horror, sometime like, let's talk Friday 13th. Right? Like, a bunch of camp counselors getting drunk and having sex in the forest.

Like, we can justify them not working at their top intelligence and shit going wrong. This is where that's why Prometheus and Alien Covenant to a degree, they just the plot progresses through idiots, and it's very upsetting. Ridley Scott is hands down one of my favorite filmmakers of all time. Probably had the a major major influence on me. And I think that the thing we're kinda chatting about here as well, and I find to be really frustrating about Scott specifically, is when I watch a Ridley Scott film that I do not like, I still know that the dude made that flick that way on purpose, and it's just frustrating.

I'm just not a fan of prequels in general. Like Yeah. I was just commenting about this with another nerd friend, and now we're shifting into comic books. I gotta focus. I'm shifting the soup mode.

Kind of, just for a bit here. When they did this, they did the origin of Wolverine years years ago. Mhmm. Mhmm. Right?

Just called origin. And Yeah. Just hated it. I didn't want to know any of those things. I don't want these defined things.

I think I love ambiguous endings. I love being able and Star Wars used to be really great at this too where nerds will debate about a thing or about a choice or about a these things. And I think the beauty of it is that ambiguity because you can come up with it's fine that the filmmakers have a distinct or definitive answer, but I don't need to see you explain to me a thing that is way more interesting in my head. And sometimes it's been addressed in comics or books or whatever, but I love the mystery of it. I'm gonna just tail on here really quickly.

That's part of what doesn't work in a lot of the Halloween movies as the original series progress into Cult of Thorn. I'm bringing it back to spooky for you people. Come on. And then the Rob Zombie and all this other stuff. It's like, I don't care why Michael Myers is evil.

I don't care that his stepdad was mean to him and that made him a killing machine apparently in the zombie versions. Don't tell me. That's part of what works about this franchise, the way that it stands. It is not a story about the aliens or the origin of the aliens. It's a story about one person, and there is a finality that happens at the end of this trilogy.

And everything else is some sort of weird bastardization to me that sometimes is more palatable than other times. But, like, that's the thing about this is, like, it doesn't care to go, Michael Myers is mean because his stepdad didn't flush the toilet once. And it's like, no. This is that's dumb. We can move on, but I just because it's fresh in my brain, the Joker is scarier when you drop him into a situation where he is chaos Yeah.

Embodied and not when you show him as this incel who has slowly gone crazy and needs to we don't need to see how Han Solo got his blaster. You know? Or how his name is Solo. You're alone solo. That's what it is.

Oh. No. I agree with you. I agree with you. And that's a hard thing.

Right? We end up solo's a awful slash amazing example because it doesn't even feel like a film. Right? It feels like a Wikipedia page that you're just shooting. Oh, woah.

Right? Like, you're just going down the list of how he got this thing and how he got his name and how he got the ship and and, like, it feels like a checklist at times. Right? Yeah. Checklist of a flick.

And some people like it for that reason, and that's okay. Because, again, there's a Prometheus It's fun enough as an adventure if it's not Han Solo. That's the thing about that movie. I forget. Great barometer for me is when I watch stuff with my wife who's not a film nerd, doesn't care about CGI, doesn't care about I think she obviously recognizes great acting, but she's not using the lexicon that you lovely people would use.

Right? She's just coming through going, like, I liked it. I didn't. But greatest, like, litmus test is when I'm watching a flick with her, and I can feel her just kinda disconnect from the film and pull out. Mhmm.

And I'll ask her, obviously, in sheer fascination because I know why I'm bored. And, you know, we Yeah. Like, I'm like Yeah. 4 people get bored too. Oh.

It's amazing. She's like, well, it wasn't real. Or she'll, you know, say these kind of amazing things. And Hans, the solo flick was running, and she was just so bored. And she'd gotten into Star Wars at this point.

My wife did not know jack about Star Wars before marrying me. And the only reason she started watching Star Wars is because she bought me tickets to the force awakens because she knew I was a Star Wars fan. Okay. And then we did machete order. It was a beaut like, when I tell you my wife is not nerdy at all, we got to I am your father, and she legit was like, he's trying to trick him.

That was her response. Yeah. Okay. She she she's now That's incredible. It's That's incredible that she had that amount.

Oh, wow. That's great. It was amazing. So Yeah. Funny enough, she sees the prequels, and she's actually kind of in awe, like, of the actual story.

I'd never yeah. It's such a cool kind of cool thing. So coming into something like Prometheus, I think is fascinating because it it has so much world building. I just wanna say, though, George Lucas, I don't appreciate you really that much. I do, but not a whole lot.

Some. I'm the ripper man, and you're out of business. But you get, you know, you get through Prometheus, and it's just That's been space. A lot of setup. And I think that is the bummer for me is that we we don't Yeah.

Have any payoff. And I listened to interviews with Scott when he made covenant, and he's like, oh, people just wanted a haunted house movie, so this is what I gave him. And I was like, man. Dude, I would love to talk to Tom Ford about how he feels about house of Gucci. I I understand what you're saying where it's like an artist with a vision.

And I think he just wanted to make him. And he wants to do what he wants to do and how he wants to do it and everybody else be damned. And, like, and, like, there's something to be said for that, but there is also something to be said for making things for the populace to a degree. That's the thing that's so special about Spielberg to me. I don't disagree with you about Scott.

I do I agree. But, yeah, we do have to move on. Ben's making a very appropriate signal. Look. Come on, guys.

Come on. So Alien 3 was originally going to follow corporal Hicks to a human controlled planet. The only way you 2 are leaving is over my dead body. And a facehugger hidden inside Bishop was going to begin the terror in a new environment. Sigourney Weaver had agreed to leave the 3rd film and return for the 4th, reuniting with Hicks.

Director Vincent Ward from what dreams may come was deep into pre pro on this film before he left the production. His concept was based on a wooden space station, space based monks, and a bunch of religious allegory stuff. Like, really heavy, like, very heavy handed, like, what dreams may come. But he did that with covenant. He did the religious allegory stuff with covenant.

For sure. It did come along at some point. And that's the thing is there were, like, 8 or 9 different scripts for this movie, and pieces of those scripts have ended up not only in this franchise, but others He mean crazy. Not a chest not a chestburster because it's a he's a Bishop's a an android, he mean. It's a facehugger sitting in there, apparently.

And then, like, the the thing morphed to become airborne was the concept of that movie at a point. Like, it wasn't like it didn't require facehuggers anymore. As we talk about David Fincher, this was one of his first films. He publicly disowns the film from an interview with the Guardian, quote, I had to work on it for 2 years, got fired off of it 3 times, and I had to fight for every single thing. No one hated it more than me to this date.

No one hates it more than me, end quote. He said a constant studio interference during production and walked out when the studio rejected his initial cut and ordered extensive reshoots. He was not involved in the final cut. His initial rough cut later became the basis of what is called the assembly cut, a longer version of the movie released on DVD in 2003 and in the Blu ray in 2010. Although Fincher was asked to work on this assembly cut, he considered it, but eventually decided against it giving supervising producer Charles de la Rizuka?

Sure. La La Zirka? La Zirka? La Zirka. His blessing as long as it was not called a director's cut.

With regards to the new version itself, he stated that he has no comments on it as he has never seen it. Before we leave, this is brought to you by Macomb OnlyFans. Macomb OnlyFans, Look into the future. It's OnlyFans. Ask Senator Macomb.

He'll tell you. Never interrupt me when I'm talking to myself. I wanna mention, and I'm gonna say it now and try not to say it a whole lot moving forward. And this is verifiable as I've said this similar type of thing about other movies. Christopher Nolan loves this movie.

I just wanna mention that. Okay. Just save. He also loves Tokyo Drift. And heat.

Okay. Well Thank you. But Heat Heat but Heat's not a divisive movie. No. Tokyo Drift kind of is, although that movie is great.

That is arguably the best movie in that franchise. I love that movie. Justice from On. Before we take a break, we need a log line. Oh, boy.

Moses, what's the log line in this film? I I'm I looked him in the eye and asked him, Ben, right in his eyes. My my off the cuff, Ripley finds herself on a prison planet facing her long long longevity Her long lost pals, the alien. Enemy once more. Do you want me to enemy once more.

The log line is returning from LV 426, Ellen Ripley crash lands on the maximum security prison, Florina 161. These numbers are very important. Where she unwittingly brought along an unwelcome visitor. That's one of the better log lines, I think. That's actually good.

The visitor in question though is actually just a really annoying, like, party guest. It's just an annoying, like, 12 year old kid. But who'd wanna hurt me? I'm this century's Dennis the Menace. I have so many issues with the beginning of this movie, but we need to take a break.

We're gonna dig into that. Yeah. We'll take care we'll take care of that. Don't you worry. We'll knock that right out.

We'll blow that away like a big old fan, chop you right up. We'll see you soon. Oh, hi. This is DP Chance. And I'm here to talk to you about Macomb only fans and couches.

And why I'm running for vice president of Macomb only fans and couches. What are my qualifications? I like to be on couches. I like to be with couches. Close to them.

I know all about settees, Chesterfields. I like to make love on a loveseat. I like to cuddle on a cabriole. I like to kiss on a chaise. I like to move on a mid century modern.

Can you do me a favor, would you lay off the fucking Oh, I like to dig on a demon. I like to rub on a racombier. Do you realize how inappropriate that word is? I'm a fan of couches. Fans too, they keep you cool, keep you calm while you're doing activities on you, on your couch.

Like while you're listening to the Review Review podcast. Never interrupt me when I'm talking to myself. On your couch. Your recliner. Maybe it's a herringbone, or a dobby, or a jacquard.

Oh, is it sateen? Easy to clean. Oh, classic chiffon. Just follow the review review podcast on Instagram. Review x 2 podcast.

Follow Ben on letterboxed atrunbmc. Follow Paul at Paul acts badly. We gotta get back to the program. Vote for DP Chance. You look like shit to me.

Vice President, Macomb OnlyFans and couches. I'm qualified. Coming to a decision. That's about that I don't need. To get a copy of it.

No. You don't. You're right. Okay. We're back from our break.

That's a little spooky. What is that? Got some cards here, Paul. What's that? Moses, I'm gonna flip it and you tell me when to stop.

For people who are listening, this is cinephile. There'll be an actor on this. There will be a freebie movie, which Moses gets, and then we'll go around. We'll go Paul, back to Moses, and we have to name a movie that actor's in. 1st person that fails will talk about their first experience with Alien to the Third Power.

Here we go. Tell me when to stop. Stop. Stop. Alright, Paul.

Don't Hammer time. Don't don't fuck with hammer though. Okay. Got you. You got the freebie?

Oh, I got I didn't even need that freebie, sir. But okay. I got it. Take the freebie. Take the freebie.

Okay. I got it. No way. Yeah. It's amazing.

So Go for it. Actor is can we just show what homie's drinking? Because this is Johnny Utah. Johnny Utah? So the actor is the former, the thespian is Keanu Reeves, and the three d they gave me was Point Break.

The Matrix. Okay. The Matrix Revolutions. Constantine. The Matrix Reloaded.

The Matrix oh, what is The Matrix Fuck. What's the subtitle? Can I can I take a new one? Can I go a different direction? Sure.

Okay. Okay. William Shakespeare is much ado about nothing. Matrix Revolutions. Babes in Toyland.

Is that what I said? Okay. I don't know. Babes in Toyland. He gave you another one.

Let him have it. Babes in Toyland. I will go with John Wick. Lakehouse. John Wick 2.

John Wick chapter 2. This is where I'm starting to get into weird subtitles, so I'll go with Bill and Ted's excellent adventure. Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey. John Wick 3 Parabellum. Bill and Ted Face the Music.

Knock knock. Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey. Oh, that's a repeat. No. Somebody said I skipped that shirt.

Did you say Bosie? Oh, so I get a a redo because you guys did. Right? Parenthood. I'll go first.

Because I don't care. I'll go first. I think one of whatever. 1 of us go first now, but what is the name of the 4th Matrix movie? Revelations?

Revelations. Is it Revelations? Will you look it up, and I'll I'll do my little d my little dance here, do my little dance y dance, my tango. So first time I saw this movie was on VHS. I was visiting my parents after my summer abroad.

I was 37, 38, whatever it was. But, no, I was pretty young. My dad got it on VHS years after it came out. This movie shook me. This was, I think, the first movie that I watched after I was allowed to watch rated r movies.

Because before, I was allowed to watch some Freddy Cougar scared the living daylights out of me. Afterward, this was a movie that just scared me more than anything else, partly just because I think the movie is so dark and so dour, and there's just a sense of impending doom all the time. And I think I felt that even as a kid. I would have given this, like, 2 disposable characters. In this case, I just rewatched it with Moses.

This is probably the 5th or 6th time I've seen the movie through. I'm gonna stick at the rating that I had at the previous time I watched it, which is on my letterbox stat, Paulax badly. It's a soft 4 which is as as hard as that's as big as I can get, and we know that. It's a soft 4. I'm a soft 4 disposable characters.

I think that this movie is making so many statements and it's packed with so much stuff and so many different people's half cocked ideas that even some of those half cocked ideas make some sort of contact with the target. I think it is some sort of a miracle that this turned out to be what is what it is. Nobody ever gave me nothing. So I say fuck that thing. Let's fight it.

And I think narratively from a to b to c, the movie is pretty easy to understand, and it's strong. And you get a lot of what you need in terms of this is what this is and what you're in for when we have the funeral procession for Hicks and Newt. You hear the guy who runs the colony do his little piece, and then Rock comes forward and does his piece, and you get a real clear understanding. And to go off of another Renny Harlin movie like this one almost was, at the beginning of Nightmare on Elm Street 4, a dog pisses fire and resurrects Freddy Krueger and then eviscerates the Dream Warriors like boom boom. Like, everything that came before this, don't worry about that.

You're on a different track. And this movie does that same thing, and I think it does it really successfully, and I think it does it justifiably. So 4 disposable characters. The only way you 2 are living is over my dead body. Who goes now?

Hugo? How about how about you? Yeah. How about you? And and then Moe.

Yeah. I didn't see this movie until college. My friend James had the, box set DVD of all the alien movies. This 2 out of the 3. 2 out of the 4 for me.

This I remember watching this one, and I think we might have watched it after watching aliens. And I remember at the time of being a 20 year old art student, feeling it being kind of it lacked substance for me in a way that I guess felt kinda boring. And I couldn't necessarily put my finger on what it was exactly that made me less interested in watch less interested in, like, rewatching it throughout the years. And so then I so back then, I I probably would have given it, like, 3 bloody dogs. And I actually watched this movie not too long ago, maybe a little over a year ago, when I was going through all of the Alien movies with my buddy, and guest host podcast, Matt Barrow, and I watched it a couple nights ago.

And I I'm I'm tempted to go to a 2a half, but it's not quite there's still something that I'm a little interested in. I think it's Ripley. You know what? For a minute, they're almost useful. But, like, the the CG for me is very rough.

The story, the pacing of the story is really rough for me. It doesn't quite pace in a way that is engaging enough and doesn't hold tension enough for me like the previous 2 do, you know, in different ways that they do. And I really, really hate the, just sort of, like, removal of Newt and Hicks, like, so quickly. It just kind of undermines everything that aliens did in a weird way for me that I just, like, okay. It just kinda feels cheap.

So that's me. I'm at 3 bloody dogs currently, but I'm moving. I can move. I love that in our conversation off Mike, the alien, that special box set has come up now multiple times. That was, I think, how I absorbed the whole saga as well when that it hit and that set was so cool, and you could see the special cuts of everything.

Mhmm. My experience will probably sound very similar to Ben because I think I was living on my own with my own cool TV in my room, you know, with my cool d I think I talked talked about it with y'all before that my, like, region free DVD player and It was a or a magnet box? I know a genuine Panophonics when I see it. Just watching a bunch of cool movies, and so I might have been working in a movie store at the time. Oh.

No. No. I wasn't. This was a little bit after that. But I was still, like, absorbing and just taking everything in.

So I have fond memories, obviously, Alien and Aliens. I saw Resurrection in the theaters, I remember. 3 was one of those that I'd seen on TV in sections. FX all the time. It's on FX all the time.

I think I just seen kinda bastardized 4, 3 versions of it on TV or whatever. I looked at my letterboxed because it had been so long since I'd kinda last seen it. It has been one that I'd seen a few times, probably 2 or 3 times, but I haven't seen it in a really long time. So I only had memories of of the experience. Right now, jumping into this podcast, having just freshly revisited it, I'm giving it 3 special cocktails.

Well Okay. I I hope audience that you're ready to hear me argue harder and bring scores up higher than you've ever heard because that is about to happen. You have my guarantee. Hey. If you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will.

I got spare time. Let's start the fucking movie. Start the movie, buddy. God damn movie. Start the movie.

And now, our feature presentation. And it's like a switch that goes on. And when the switch goes on, I feel like another person. I feel I don't know. I feel like a like a truck.

Like a machine. And I'm gonna ask you both, Outside of giving Ripley reasoning to want, need something to live for as between alien and aliens, her existence has been pretty rough. And she wants this, like, nuclear family. And she's given this nuclear family and the audience has given this nuclear family, and it's like so everything's good now. Right?

Because it has the nice cool American nuclear family. And then this movie comes along and goes, those 2 characters did not drive their own stories. They did not drive the story forward necessarily. They were character devices for Ripley. And we think we have more interesting ways to go.

And the interesting way to go here outside of we don't wanna pay Michael Bean as much as he wants, so we'll pay him more than he made on aliens for a photo. But this movie from the very beginning is saying, just so you know, this woman's life that she dedicated to a corporation in this existence is hell. There is no happiness. You thought the escape from this pain and these creatures was being in your little, like, nuclear family. No.

No. No. You're cursed. Existence for you living, breathing, continuing, it's all going to be bad. You are a corporate tool.

You are owned. That is it. And for the story to continue strongly, I think it is so essential to kinda what you were saying, Ben, about Prey, to taking this story so far back in nuts and bolts that it's even more demonstrative and scary and less equipment and less capability and and less allies than even alien. So there's a level of isolation Oopsie. That's scary.

And, also, for, I think, the only time in the franchise, except for parts of, like, covenant, we're not in space. Very quickly in this, it's like, we're not in space. We're not concerned about, like, what you care about in terms of these previous characters or this previous situation. We're driving the story forward with this character arc, and part of hitting what we need to hit is letting these characters that really served no greater purpose, they've gotta go. She won't ever know the hardship and grief for those of us left behind.

We commit these bodies to the void with a glad heart. I hear you, and I don't disagree with kind of the logic. As a fan of the podcast as well, and I know y'all don't handle a lot of franchises, and it's interesting because we're kinda jumping in. We we've talked a lot about franchises and legacy sequels and whatnot. To me, in terms of execution, a lot of this film, I'm about to say something kinda savage here, reminds me a little bit of Rocky 5.

And it reminds me of Rocky 5 in the way that on paper, the idea of going back to a thing Rocky 5 on paper makes a lot of sense, and then Rocky 5 in terms of execution is really difficult thing. Right? Because we go into the brain damage stuff. We go into, like, a lot of things that are really difficult to see a character that you really appreciate and enjoy and is kind of a interesting proxy for the American dream. Kinda get beaten up, but there's family.

There's a lot of cool themes kind of in there. And I think alien 3 has a similar thing where on paper, there's a lot of really great things. I don't know if the execution always works for me. I do think Sigourney Weaver is phenomenal in it. I do think that you've got an amazing cast.

Dude, that's the thing about Rocky 5 to just take your specific example. This is Sylvester Stallone in a performance that feels a little checked out with a bunch of actors around him that are not nearly the talent of the the next 5 or 7 build past Charles Dance in this movie. Saying that more in terms of, you know, you bring Appleton back in to direct. You're trying to go back to what made the first film work. Yeah.

But Appleton had, like, lost it by then. I'm just going by what's on paper in the comic, like, in 70. Yeah. And by no means am I saying that this is as usually say Rocky 5 is like the fat Elvis of right? Like so that being said, this is by no means as much of a travesty, and I do think that it does a thing.

I'm more surprised in watching we watch the original cut. Yeah. The theatrical release. Yeah. Me too.

And I am more in awe that it even makes sense as much as it does. When you know how the sausage made how the sausage got made. It's I I mean I I have maybe more issues in terms of pacing and structure Yeah. Me too. Than any means.

Ripley crash lands, onto this planet, and, yes, Hicks and Newt do not make it. There's, like, a little bit of Bishop left, but he's pretty much pieces. And it is a prison planet, and they excavate the ship or the and then she's ticked. And the montage is rough for me, the introduction montage. I love it.

It is rough for me. It doesn't it doesn't work. I love how it's like we're casting this aside. Like, we're gonna brush this. Again, like, as I said was saying before, what true purpose outside of how they made Ripley feel or that, like, Ripley was a winner, like, what what purpose did these characters ultimately serve?

So it sucks that these people are lost. There's no I I feel for Ripley ultimately serve? So it sucks that these people are lost. There's no I I feel for Ripley about it. But that's a for me or the characters.

I just I feel like that's a it's not a that's not a to me, it's not about a question of, like, what purpose do these characters serve. To me, it's it's more like, what is it about taking like, I I can see concepts of why they wanna take Ripley and put her on a prison planet. It's a female on an all male planet. Interesting concept. It's an interesting concept.

The thing for me that it starts to crumble is that I'm not scared anymore about the about the alien. It doesn't it doesn't scare me anymore. It to me, now I'm now I'm like, we're talking this is more about a, like, a a situation that is creepy and weird and and not exactly the movie I wanna watch, I guess. I don't know how fair that is to the movie though when you're like, this isn't the movie I wanna watch. And it's like, well, watching the movie as it is, like, where it's like, it's very uncomfortable.

Ripley, at the very beginning of the movie, she goes through this crash landing, and she's told very early on, like, hey. Your your mates on this ship, they're dead. And she's butt stark naked and just gets up right after that. And it's like, okay. So now what?

And she's like he's like, well, it's a prison colony. You might wanna dress up. And she's like, I don't care. She's lost all hope. So it's one of those things where it's like the movie you wanna see died with with Hicks and Newt.

It's one of those things where it's like, you have to get on board very quickly. Think to I think I would get on board if the tension was held better. It doesn't it doesn't hold my it doesn't hold my my attention enough to be like, oh, okay. We're gonna do, like, a a little bit more of a darker sort of thriller character driven creepy thing. That's a fine idea.

The thing that I kept coming back to and is a Fincher that's whatever is Panic Room when I was watching this. Because I was like, oh, this is the kind of thing that he's trying to do here, which he kinda gets he does better with panic room, in my opinion. It's that level of, like, let's isolate. Let's let's put these people in together. Let's force them into this situation, and let's watch what happens.

I know you're talking about how you want to see more of the alien or the alien be the main threat. The thing that I guess for me that's super, super effective is as soon as she's there, they're like, this is a y y chromosome colony. You're the only woman. So it's like, oh, so even if the alien's not here, this is a nightmare. And pretty shortly into that whole thing, Charles s Dutton is like, I'm a rapist and murderer of women.

And she, again, is just like, I'm really not scared of jack shit anymore and just sits down right in front of him. And it's just such a great power move partly because, like, we've talked about this with zombie movies at times where movies that, like, remind me that humanity is the scariest thing possible, it resonates with me. I don't know if this film quite does that, but I do wanna talk about a positive thing about it. Because then I do wanna say when I say 3 stars or 3 special cocktails, when I give a flick, like, 3 stars, I'm like, dude, you should check it out. It's like we're checking out.

Me too. It's usually where I'm at. Because I know I've I've had conversations about, like, how we kinda tend to rate or rank on in our own kind of heads. But I will say that scene that you just brought up, and I do wanna maybe I might be the buffer bouncing in between both of y'all, is and I know we haven't said it. This I'll be the 1st to break the seal on this.

That moment when she was in the dining hall area made me realize it clicked in that thing that people have commented about not liking in Alien Romulus, and it clicked in that moment. Is that I realized in that moment, if I'm just looking at the first three films and even the latter films, how much of a dining hall scene is such a important moment for Ripley to be position. Yeah. Yeah. And not even an exposition, but just how Ripley asserts herself in these relationships.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We see it right in the in the very first film, and it's definitely kind of a family. They've all got kind of their own thing happening.

We see it in aliens when she's with the space marines and how she reacts in sitting with them. We have these lovely character moments with each of the marines. And it's kind of almost the only real space that we kinda get to, you know, aside from waking up from cryo, all that stuff. And here, again, we're seeing the dynamics there. I do think a little bit of that's lost, but I remember going, god, like, this is doing the thing that you've done in the previous films without, as you were saying earlier, Ben, that moment where you're, like, remember that thing that you liked?

Like, she's gonna say the line. Like, then you don't Thank you. And instead, it was a thematic thing about Ripley being an outsider in Mhmm. In the the 2 sequels and even her last sequel as as it stands so far. But because who knows?

Stands so far. Yeah. That being said. Right? So I was thinking about just how elegant that moment was in terms of and a little bit of it is a little bit forced.

It's a little bit harsh, but I also and this is kind of me veering on the Ben side as well going, like, I get that these these cats are doing a particular thing, but I still don't like, when people started dying later in the film, I didn't know who was who. Oh, sure. Yeah. But And that was a bit of a bummer, and I don't wanna go as simple as blaming the shaved head thing. It was because I didn't, aside from a few and we did talk about this, and there is a beauty in this.

When you cast really great actors, you cast really great faces, and there were so many great faces doing great things in this film. But I didn't have a chance, and this is where some of my minor disconnects where that rating starts to kinda come down for me. Again, it's a solid 3, not at a wavering 3, but it was that thing where I'm like, I don't, aside from Dutton, aside from dance, these actors that are really, really great, aside from these actors that have a bit of a screen time to kinda talk a little bit, I didn't really get a chance to care about anyone or more importantly know anyone. No. I I get what you're saying, and I I'm gonna be super brief here.

It's, like, it's little things for instance, when Sigourney Weaver says to the alien, I don't remember my life without you. Great line. And how, like, her I don't give a fuck through this whole very dour, very sour, very depressing movie about existential dread. This movie is about the pain of existence. Ripley is just, like, massively, massively put upon.

Why the innocent punishment? Why the sacrifice? Why the pain? There aren't any promises. Nothing's certain.

Only that some get called, some get safe. I give a lot of respect to the movie just being like, dude, you're gonna deal with this or you're not? You're gonna like it or you're not? And that's part of why I think it works as as an entertainment piece and kind of an art piece and this crazy hodgepodge that it is and the fact that it works at all makes almost no sense. But you were talking about character actors and character performances and stuff like that.

It's little tiny things like even her exchange with Pete Postlewhite or, like, when Holt McCulney who essentially has, like, no lines in this movie is one of the weird rapist guys. He's about to go through this action with Sigourney Weaver and like a psycho or a weirdo who's like I gotta get into my mode, dawg, like pulls his goggles down before he's about to go through the act. That is an actor who has made a choice and done character work. This is like a psycho who's like I'm gonna get in my mode man. I'm gonna, I'm gonna get my like black sneakers and black leather jacket on and that hat that I like to wear when I kill people.

Like it's a, it's a thoughtful action that seems to happen for almost every actor in this movie at some point. And so much of it for me really works. A lot of it's weird or hard to explain, especially if you're not an industry person who's like, I know I do character work. But there's a lot of that in this. The actors did the work for sure.

And I definitely felt that we we were trying to stay pretty quiet while watching it together and not inform anything to one another. But there are a few times that I would just be like, man, that person's so great. You know, just because we're doing these small wonderful things. But, again, I don't know that. And and it's not a case sometimes when you watch movies and there's so many characters and you you may not remember everyone's names, and that's okay.

But I think this was a case of, like, I don't know if I have anything to care about, and not in a nihilistic way, not in a because I get where where you're what you're saying with kind of the, clearly, a scene that does work. It's very on the nose, but it does work. Right? It's the death and rebirth scene or death and birth scene where we are having this beautiful kinda eulogy and all these things happening and then the the the bloody dog and and everything kinda happening there. The a and b rebirth is something else.

For sure. I think even then, I was like, surgically, clinically, this makes sense. Mhmm. But, emotionally, aside from the fact, which is a lot of heavy lifting and it works for me because of that, it's done doing it, so this works for me. But I'm I'm not Mhmm.

One of those things, there's just some and it's just a little bit of a thing. Please, man. I you know, you hit on something that I think really resonated for me, and I think that Fincher does this sometimes to, a lot of times to a fault, is that it becomes clinical. And it become it it become there's less heart. And I think for me in this movie, I don't care.

I stop caring. This movie has no heart. That's the thing that's really hard. There's not a lot of likable characters or whatever. And the thing that it does that's really fucking brave is, like, does anybody expect, like, you know, Tom Skerritt or John Hurt to die in Alien in 1979?

Nobody expects that. You come into this movie and Hicks and Newt being dead, you don't expect that. Like and and I know we're talking about, like I I I don't expect a Veronica Cartwright in every movie. I don't expect that. But in this movie, Chuck and Chuck do it for me all the way from point a to point b to point c.

I care. I feel. I'm concerned. I'm involved. The performances, again, carry the movie despite the script.

Movie. Yeah. Despite the script. I think their actors are doing a lot with a very underwritten characters. This is what I think is what the movie the movie is really guilty of.

It takes something that was somewhat character driven in the first entry, especially if you see the director's cut very character driven in the second movie, but, like, even less character driven if it's not the director's cut, and then a movie that is only character driven. And it like, it's one of those things where, again, where it's like, if you are saying I expected or I wanted this and you're not ready to eat what you're fed, you're not gonna like it. Just to, like I I know we're starting to I start I started to feel like we're, like, repeating things To a degree a little. Because I just I wanna say, like, it's not that I don't mind this direction of where they wanna go with it. It's that it to me, the the word that comes to mind when I watch especially, like, as we get into the second act of this movie, it starts to become tedious.

The second act is long. You're right. It does not hold I can see exactly what they wanted to do and maybe this is a big part of what, like, Fincher leaving and coming and leaving and coming and all that. To a decision. Is maybe, like, we lose that that taut knot of tension that I think this movie wants to continue to hold throughout the movie.

It wants us to feel this real, isolated, terrifying I start to lose that. It doesn't quite keep me, and I love that shit. I love being in slow burn, little tight, keep it nice and, like, small story, but it doesn't quite hold that tension. I lose it too, but then it comes back for me. And we'll, like, we'll get into that.

I know we're I didn't take notes, Ben. Oh. Crazy. Right? I mean, we're we're blazing through act 1 because we talked about the introducing of introduction chill and and Charles s Dutton and, like, attempted rape, and Dutton kinda comes around.

I also wanna comment real quick to most of the film. We had actually commented a few times. We're like, oh, this feels like a reshoot moment. Yeah. There were no photos.

And and I wanna fold this in with kind of again, as I said before, for myself, it's kind of a pacing structure issue, but I do love and I was thinking about this how so much of these and especially the first four alien films don't feel American. They don't feel very western. And so that was just something just noticing on a visual, especially in the the first where it's a lot of kind of, we're shooting up at their faces a lot. Right? We're like Yeah.

Just really interesting kind of angles. This felt like German or something. Yeah. There's a little bit of a lot of shirt. Yeah.

There's an expressionism kind of feel. You know? And so I I was just I wanted to comment on that before we lost it later because, you know, especially in that first act, I was really kind of and I do feel like I lose a little bit of that aside from cool stylistic flourishes. But I I during the first act, I was like, you know, there is with what Paul is sharing, like, there is something kinda happening. I was okay with the intro.

I was but I also was like, oh, y'all just, like, shot stuff because you needed an intro is what it read for me. Mhmm. But as as it was kinda moving, I love the production value for a lot of it. I think the later in the last act, the the nuclear trash heap was a little bit cliched. But so much of the some of the set deck just looked really good, and I do wanna Oh, yeah.

As we're here in the beginning and we see that again, we don't see it. We just what whoever did that work deserves a lot of praise because it looked great. To tell the people who are watching, a facehugger comes aboard and takes down a dog in this in this story. Yeah. And we so we get a different species of the xenomorph, which comes out fully formed in this story.

It's just a couple times. No. When we first small. When we first see it come out, it's like it's got its long head. It's formed, but it's small.

Toll but not but not its skin a couple times. But not as small as it does. The snake like it usually is. Yeah. Not as small as it would when it comes out of a a human.

This is the thing that can be difficult for me about this movie because for, like, you know, the first act, the Charles Dance Sigourney Weaver thing has got me. Like, I'm into it. And I love that I'm understanding I think the performance, the character driven piece in the performance by Sigourney Weaver is really, really She's great. Great. And that that thing is really working for me.

I'm worried, like, can she love? Can she trust? Does she wanna live? What is existence anymore? And she seems to care about this person or enough about herself or whatever where she wants physical pleasure and blah blah blah blah blah.

The alien rules start to feel weird in this, where it's like It seems it only takes a certain amount of hours or minutes Well, this is where I start to Romulus, an alien pops out after moments of a facehugger. I I was actually wondering in this movie, I was like, is there someone who holds the, like, canon of what xenomorph science is, or is each filmmaker making their own choices? Well, I think this one was a little different. I don't know if we have this in our chat thread. Resurrection, they were engineered.

Yeah. So I think that their lifespan or their spawning, you know, their ability to spawn or whatever that molting phase was super quick. So I feel like that was explained enough in that Mhmm. Zoom. There you go.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Here, the cool thing is this is the first time that we've seen anything like this. So I think it's I wanna be you know, you wanna be as per give the filmmakers as much, like, benefit of the doubt as possible.

This is one of those scenarios where it feels like, oh, we've never done this before. And we also because of the slightly I don't wanna say languid, but the the softer pace that we're operating at in the first act, dang near even the up up until the second act. Yep. I'm guessing that there's been enough time, and and they're giving us the visual information. Right?

We're seeing the some of the the shed molten Yeah. You know, that that the first death, and we see it again later. So I think we're getting it's I think that they were trying to convey to the audience that this is different than the other versions. And I think that the fact that it's different translates, it is interesting. You know?

It's, like, gives us, like, a creature that's seemingly faster and more, I guess, even more animalistic than the xenomorph that we're familiar with. It it's still especially after you come out of aliens, it still isn't scary. I I think I have the same issue as well. Yeah. That there isn't anything and I don't know if that's a fault of the film because maybe they weren't trying to be scary, but I'm with you in that.

And I also I wanna go back to this xenomorph thing because it also because it came out of a human in the the previous films, it looks kinda like a fetus. It looks like and here, like, a puppy grows real fast. Yeah. True. You know?

Again, just just always wanna try to give that kind of benefit of doubt that, like, oh, yeah. It would you know, a puppy looks like a puppy the moment it comes out, and then it you then you're like the next I always tell that to, like, little kids. Like, I want a dog. I want a puppy. I'm like, that puppy's only gonna be cute for those 1st few weeks.

Yeah. You know? And then you're gonna have a What is the xenomorph called? This one, this version, the dog one. Every single genus has a different, like, classification or they go hard in the paint like Star Wars style in this franchise as well.

Because in Proteus, it's the protomorph. The one that comes out that's, like, skinnier and And has the weirder mouth and, like, it's bigger and, like yeah. And then we have the, Zeno thin man in Romulus. God. Yeah.

I love the Dead Space games. So I gotta say too, in terms of this franchise or Ripley having a legitimate I don't wanna say, like, romantic interest or even physical interest. I mean, just like an interest. Like, because, I mean, she kind of had it in Hicks, but that almost felt like Keanu Reeves in Speed, a movie I don't think we said, which is crazy. But she is legitimately I mean, the pathos that Charles Dance the Chucky tango, sorry, comes for comes with in this performance is phenomenal.

There's a reason why there are so many tight shots on just his face. He's great. She's great. Their scenes are great. Dude, he Chuck Chucky dance, though.

Not a moment too late. Not a moment too soon. He knows how to tango. He knows how to horizontal mambo. I think we should the right time.

I wanna fill in Paul with what Moses and I just talked about because we were talking about the dog more for whatever. And, like, I think for me, it just doesn't and and, like, Moses made a good point. Like, maybe this isn't the point. But to me, the the especially when we see this counter to aliens, even solo from that, it just isn't very scary. I disagree.

I think that the CG moments kind of dull the sheen. I think especially in the moments with Charles s Dutton in, like, that tight corridor or a couple of the moments where it's gonna pull something up. And let's also be honest about inarguably the most iconic visual moment of the entire series is this version of the Zeno coming up to Ripley and, like, smelling her and choosing not to kill her, which I remember as a kid in that moment being like, oh, it kills everybody but the star of the movie? What is this? Like, I couldn't I couldn't fathom, like, that it, like, was what it was.

No. I I like that it moves a little different, that it seems to behave a little different. I think the thing that cheapens it or makes it less effective is that, like, the CG stuff is so rough. And it would have been so I I mean, so hard to achieve that practically at that point. But, like, they lean on that crutch a little too hard for me.

I I think all the most of the practical stuff works. It's when it's not practical that it's that it's tough. I mean, the practical effects work. I not so much about the effect for me. It's just, like, the way that it's intro no.

It's just the way that it's sort of introduced and it sort of exists in the script. It doesn't I like the reintroduction. The the first, what, 10 deaths, I I would agree, aren't I'm not It's a fire explosion at a point. Right? Yeah.

But each of each of those I think they even do a count in the movie. Like, the first 10, like, Charles s Stutton says, that's 10 of us. Mhmm. I was like, oh, okay. Like, I'm I'm kinda with you, Ben.

Like, I I think and by no means, but also I was and my kind of in defense of was like, well, maybe it wasn't trying to be scary, which is a weird thing to say. And and if they were, then you may have failed. I I do think you know? But but it is it is that thing because you've got them in the first two films do a take on something horror, sci fi horror horror action, whatever that may be. And this one, it almost doesn't feel like horror is a part of the comp Oh, it feels like straight horror to me.

Oh, yeah. Like, existence is hopeless. It feels like a thriller. It's a thriller. It's a thriller.

Existence is hopeless. I don't disagree with especially the second act. I mean, the first act is a slow burn too. The second act is really fucking long, I think. Can we all agree on that?

So I can't real long in this movie. The first act is a little long as well. Sure. Yeah. I I I feel the 2 hours, but I don't mind it.

Sure. I Yeah. I don't either. I feel it too. It does it feels every bit its length to me.

Every single bit its length. It feels it feels long to me. No. I I guess, you know, for me, I'm so wrapped up in this hero's journey of Ripley. We I've said this before about the first one.

It's like a smart and capable victim of circumstance rises above, has moments of genius, like, is a capable person, but a lot and, like, blows it out of an airlock. And then all of a sudden, a hardened badass in the second one who's like, I will not suffer fools or any losses. I take what I want and what I need, which is like the nuclear family. That's what'll make me happy and then blows it out of an airlock. With this one, it's like, well, I thought what would make me happy is no longer available and I think what make would make me happy is to just be dead.

And that's again, this is this movie is so hard to swallow because the hero's journey, the character journey is the release from the mortal coil is your reward, and that is really hard to stomach. I wanna jump on what Paul is sharing as well because I will say this about the original trilogy because the first two are obviously very strong in my my brain. Yeah. And especially as I get older, there is a cool thing. If we're talking about themes, and this film does not fail on themes.

We can't we won't argue with that. I'm gonna bring up a big one. And there there are sometimes films that we watch, and you're like, that's tacked on. And Yeah. And this by all means and this trilogy by all means, I I I think we also need to talk about permission and agency.

Mhmm. And we also have to talk about just motherhood. Sure. It is something that's beautiful about, like, a woman's place in society, a woman's place in the world. That is definitely something we see chosen place.

And chosen place. And and as we talked about, the dining hall scene in each of these films and the way that she and and, again, the iconic moments in part 2. But this is very much that thing even with the cocktail moment and it and flipping that kind of moment on its head a bit. And she accepts it. She allows it, and then we obviously lose dance in that moment.

Oh, god. But all of that to be said and that's a and I love that you feel so strongly, like, emotionally. Oh, yeah. I think what I when that happens, I get on paper. And, again, this is back to the Rocky 5 thing for me.

Hey, Paul. Don't get mentally erect. I get what's happening in this movie. Don't get erect. And I I love the themes in the film.

And I appreciate, again, as someone that, like, adores women and roots for women, and, you know, you see Ripley on every freaking list every year. One of the iconic one of the iconic and, you know, dude bros will be like, well, make them like Ripley. Yeah. Sure. That's not fair.

Right. Because, you know There's only one. That being said, right, like, Ripley is so and by way of Sigourney Weaver's brilliant performance, again, as you were saying earlier, in spite or despite of some of the scripting, like, she is so good. But that moment when even for me, even to this day when she chooses to sleep with him, I'm like, but you chose it. You got you.

Like, this is I like that. No. No. But I'm it but I understand why. Like, I don't like it, but I it just feels like you don't know this dude is kind of where my brain is.

Oh, no. No. No. Find her to be a very intelligent character who's used a lot of intelligence throughout these films. She's quite hopeless at this point.

Says it in the dialogue, and you gotta, you know. But that being said, her taking the injection taking the special cocktail of stuff. Like, you're like, okay. And and I think what's great about Ripley is that she has a great BS meter. So, you know, her whole internal Dude.

Like, her, again, maternal instinct Just knocked your own point. Yeah. Keep going. You know what I mean? But that's that's where I'm like, but that's what I'm saying.

I don't like it. That doesn't mean it's bad or wrong. Or that it's not valid. Yeah. But thank you for sharing.

A really important thing that any person anybody that's listened to this podcast as well. Just because you don't like a thing in a movie does not make it a mistake. Yeah. Right. Does not make it a bad movie.

Good point. And here, like, I don't like it, but I get it. And I get why. And I think it's important because it does fold in on something really important about her agency, about her Yes. Own.

So I will say that, but I I do kind of feel a little bit of a disconnect. Yeah. I think if Fincher had made this And edited it or been in the room? But even, like, as he became a more capable filmmaker, if this movie had been made, I don't know, 5 years after this and had a little bit more agency with it, the concepts, the ideas, the sheer like, even even just, like, the overarching themes, like, we're talking about, they're all there. I'm not trying to say they're not.

For me, the only thing that really just kinda falls flat for me is the tension of this movie. And that's Oh, I get it. And that for me is, like, when I'm talk when I'm coming from Alien being a 5 star movie for me, which is a movie that is just, I mean, that movie and the thing, I think, are the 2 movies that hold tension probably. Olivia Amen. Yeah.

Sure. That that's what I'm wanting in terms of, like and I see what that is the seeds that are being set here. And I guess I'm just like, ah, I want to I want to grab on. I want to grab on, but it's not it's not keeping me. It's not keeping me I'm tell what I'm trying to say is, like, those like, it's fool's gold.

Like, it's being set there just to, like, be like, well, keep coming. Like, that's the But but that's the thing that is not it's not drawing me. Like, similar to what Moses said or what you're saying, like, it's not working for me. Like, he's saying, like, no. This this whole thing this whole journey through these 2 movies, all of this is about this one person.

This other stuff is just ancillary fodder bullshit. All these other characters No. I get that. All these villains and stuff. I and real quick about the Charles Dance scene is we're in that moment.

Ripley gets the special cocktail. The dogs, you know, exited the Zeno and and the prison colony is starting to rumble with things. The other thing about Newt dying, does anybody not feel the power or pain of Ripley examining Newt's body? Because that is hard. Yeah.

It's good. Again, this that's the thing about this movie. Everything about this movie is hard. You just have to deal with it and you like it or you don't. But Charles Dance and her sleeping together, which to me makes sense.

As soon as he goes, well, you're quite forward, aren't you? I'm like, oh, well, she's probably gonna sleep with this guy. He seems totally, like, charming and, like, you know, resentful or, like, shameful and all the like, he so much saying so little as Moses had said. And there's a moment where he's like, I'm making you a special cocktail. And he's like, do you trust me?

And she says, yes. And there's this moment of like, oh, she never thought she could do this again. You as an audience member thought she could do this again. And then it cuts to dance and you're like, oh, no. I get it.

Yeah. This makes sense. I trust that guy. And then he gets fucking stapled to the brain. Like, again, like, this is the thing about this movie is it takes your 5 probably favorite characters in this franchise.

Newt, Hicks, Dutton, Dance, and Weaver, and kills them all. Like, it kills completely indiscriminately. Like, where like, the movie is just saying, I do not care what you want. If you like it, you like it, and if you don't, you don't. Like, you get what you get.

You don't feel a fit. Like Okay. Whatever. Let's and we're and we're going along, and let's keep the movie going. I just wanna be clear that it's not that I want something from this movie that it's not giving me.

It's that I'm seeing what the movie is trying to do, which is hold tension, and it's not doing it. No. I get it. I get it. I just wanna make it clear because I feel like you keep bringing it back to, like, this is what I want from the movie, and I want these characters to do this thing, and I want these characters to live.

I don't give a shit about any of that. You can kill these people off like fucking whatever. I don't give a fuck a shit. What you said at the beginning of the movie. Yeah.

Well, if you're gonna I would say I would say this. With Newton Hicks, that to me is a is cheap writing. Oh, wow. But it if that's what you wanna do Yeah. The idea of her having to go through the mourning process of that, that's all that all that all makes sense to me.

Like, you can do that. It's the fact that it it doesn't keep the tension taught enough for me to give a shit. I think that the Charles Dance relationship and her, like, extending trust or having some sort of hope again grabs me to a degree. Like, that her losing him immediately after then ratchets up like, it doesn't ratchet up the tension. It ratchets up the upset.

It ratchets up the down. It ratchets up the angry. It ratchets up the why. Like, that's what I think drives this movie is, like, why all the pain? As Dutton says It's well cast, and I think the actors do some great stuff with some of the dialogue.

But I I'm also kind of with y'all in that. Like, I when when dance dies, I'm not surprised. I don't feel any tension in it. And I think some of the deaths here, I and some of this is a geography issue, and that we're kind of Yes. Entering the the final act especially.

Yeah. But I'm like, wait. What? You don't feel upset for her for losing this person in the moment that she cares? I'm gonna I apologize, and this is probably gonna just make you more it felt so cliched.

And I and I think I was just got killed in that moment? Yeah. Like, it was just like, oh, okay. Especially that it was a man. It was just that it was just I was like, oh, we're moving on.

We're just checking off the people that should die here. Okay. It just For her to progress. For her to progress. And Like Newton Hicks.

Yeah. And and I and I'm with you on the and I haven't brought up the Newton Hicks thing too. Obviously, as fans of those characters and what they did, I get it. Progressing heavily forward. Yeah.

Again, this whole movie on paper with it. But when dance dies, I was like, It's it's one of those things, and I know here's it's not Fincher's fault, and it's clearly not as people continue to say, not any of these actors that did the work. They Oh, no. Not at all. But there there's just something I would desire deeply from this for just to be ratcheted down a little bit.

Things to be tightened down a little bit. And that's it. And Oh, like making the move the pacing a little bit more. It's not yeah. But in that moment, I'm like, I get why we're using dance.

It's not shocking enough for me to be like, oh my gosh. And it's also not sad enough for me. Like, it's just it happens. And I think that that tends to be a thing that You kinda feel like Ripley. But but it happens in the film.

But I think our job as filmmakers or storytellers is to, like, you could have done that moment a million different ways. And, again, I don't know what was lost in previous cuts. I don't Right. Scripts and But as it happened in the version that we saw, for me, dude, I love that you were, like, on it and feel it and feel the hopelessness of it. But I was like, oh, alright.

I guess. It was just it was such a strange like, I was always curious why the xenomorph or whatever it's called in this particular film. Xeno 9. Yeah. Z 9.

Whatever it is called doesn't kill 9 everyone when it's there. It randomly kills someone and drags them. I'm like, here's the other person. Just grab both of them. Or, like, it was just a I think it behaves a little more like a dog.

Okay. I think that's maybe that. But I also like, what you're saying, it's like Paul, stop justifying everything. Which is okay, though. I think great.

I think you're allowed to, and that's what's so I love that you're on the hill, and you're like you slammed down the sword. Luckily, Bison has driven me crazy. It's like the the dance thing. I guess I'm also coming from aliens. Oh, the love interest is saved, and you guys get the correct effect from Hicks dying, and I don't.

And then I'm like, oh, you took him like that? Let me Like, in terms of dance. And, like, the dance part hits me and the Hicks part doesn't because they have no relationship. The characters they look at a gun together. But just for sake of this Yeah.

Yeah. You remember every person's death in aliens. Yeah. I don't remember who all dies in, like, the firebomb in this one or who all is carried off. Every marine All the marines little bit of time with.

Yeah. Sure. You remember their death. And and the thing also as we're getting towards the 3rd act, which you brought up, because they kinda get into this sort of, like, home alone trap of Just this crazy set piece. The mousetrap thing.

We really needed to understand the geography more. I I really needed to understand the geography more. The first movie does a really good job of being just beyond the Nostromo, and we kinda get a concept of the geography. And then the second movie does that as well even on a bigger scale, and it shows us maps. And I feel like we were maps.

Yeah. We were just missing I was missing this for lack for a Home Alone map of show me show me what this world that we are in right now because I'm only seeing corridors and doors closing, and they all look the same, And it doesn't Yeah. I don't understand who's who and where's who is where, and I don't under really understand what the plan is. There's just, like, a level of that that I'm like concept of a plan? They have concepts of a plan.

But you know what I mean? Like, I I I like the idea of that. I love the idea of them trapping the creature. But it it needed to have a little bit more polishing for me to, like, fully understand what you know, you know, like, when we talk about, like, you know, Top Gun Maverick does such a good job of telling us what the plan is and then showing the plan fall apart. Like, that is our plan.

Yeah. Top Gun Maverick in particular. It shows us the it shows us the plan, like, to the t. Gives us the entire geography and understanding of what's gonna happen. And then when it falls apart, we are then, oh, fuck.

This was the plan and it had this level of error. And now, in this movie for me, it doesn't it doesn't do that. Tom Cruise and Miles Teller have to shoot their way out for some reason and get an f 14 Tomcat. Ben, and this also goes back to your previous statement and then kind of the thing that we've been slightly harping on here, both he and I, which is but if the pacing was tight enough or quick enough or if it was ratcheted down enough, you wouldn't be asking that question either. Right?

Because it's moving at such a clip that you wouldn't be questioning. Because I even found myself going, like, I don't you verbalize the plan. I have no idea how this is working, what corridors are being closed off. Right. Yeah.

You're just kinda running and shouting letters, and I guess we're pushing it down a thing. But if you'd given us that, like, great. So we have, like, we have this we have get it to this door, that door has to close at this moment. And then we get to this point, and then that door like, if you kinda like give us it to a point so that we can under like, Ocean's 11. Right?

Does such a great job of that too. Where we we we understand the plan to a tee so that then you can subvert the plan and make it so it's fuck the plan up, and we can be tense about it. We can be like, oh, shit. Always devil's advocate though. It could also be that thing.

Sometimes the execution may be much, but, like, it could also be one of those things where, like, this plan is not a great plan. Sure. This is largely a bunch of 80 fives. Are you Del Preston? Amonthe?

Like a bunch of dudes who are gonna fuck up the home alone plan and drop a match or miss a corridor or something's not gonna go quite right or what have you. And I don't know if you guys agree with me that first half where the movie is really about hitting you over the head with a baseball bat. Tell me, you didn't pay money for this. Like, get ready for the, what is it, most depressing time of the year, Christmas, or whatever, the girl with the dragon tattoo David Fincher thing was. This is truly that movie where, like, the first half is just about literally taking away everything from Ripley.

All hope, all want or need for existence, and it's slower and it's a little harder. And then the second half is a little more CG and it's a little more, like, slapped together and so forth. But when when Chuck takes over for Chuck, when Dutton takes over for dance, like, the movie moves faster. Because Dutton's amazing. Dutton is so good.

What Moe's is saying, if you if if the movie is being tightened down and let the performances let the performances drive it more, I think and who's to say? Right? But, like, it feels like either it's it really is a concept of a Fincher movie and not so much a Fincher movie. It doesn't fully feel like one. I agree with you.

I think there was a lot of clearly studio interference and stuff that happened with the movie. Before we go barreling too far into 3rd act, I think we have to talk about deal with the theme that's overarching in the movie. And do we all agree that this movie is extremely pro choice? That's oh, yeah. Sure.

I mean, rather than give birth to this demon, her greatest enemy, the greatest evil she's ever known The Omen. The child or what have you, she'd rather sacrifice herself. And the corporation doesn't want her to die, won't let her terminate it. They own her. As soon as they find out she's there and they have an alien inside her, they're go they go from being there in 10 hours to 2 hours.

JD Vance JT Vance pulls up and has to make sure no autonomy, and he just wheeled in on a couch. It's a dirty couch. It looks like the xenomorph was on it or 2 or 3 of them. It's pretty filthy. Like, this this episode is brought to you by Macomb OnlyFans.

OnlyFans get your couches and fans approved by JD Vance. But the I I think the movie in the 3rd act becomes this huge statement about I think Alien is a pretty feminist franchise, at least, for the first few. I would agree with that. And I think that this movie is extremely, extremely clear in its intention to say that a woman should have the choice over her own body, should have her own autonomy. And I think that the theme carries over really well without being too heavy handed, and I think that's hard, and I think it's also extremely divisive.

Ten points to Gryffindor because I had never thought about that before. Oh, shit. Thank you. Okay. I do I do agree with that.

Yeah. And I think it's effective, which is so hard. It's so hard. I mean, our And I and I think that, again character has earned it. And, again, I think, like, that comes back to the concept of her being on a prison planet with all men.

Like, that is the theme that you can that you can that you can highlight in that structure is is her being someone with agency and, like, fully taking control of her own, body and, choices. And Yeah. No. I agree. I totally agree.

And motivation at the end of the movie. If you're not gonna let me do what I need to do and no one else is gonna help me that I've asked to to help me, I have to take it into my own hands. I will say as we're Literally. I I I will I will say there I think one aspect from this of this movie that is missing a little bit is the use and and what I think the series does well in other places is the use of an android. And I think that, like Oh, buddy.

I'm It's making me like this more. Like what? The Android thing. I love what you're saying. I I wish that we had gotten like, I I bringing back Bishop for that hot second is, like, it's sad.

It's really sad because I really like Bishop a lot. Same. And I think that is effective. It's effective use of also effective use of practical effects and, work that works. I I guess I I like the conversation that these movies have around humanity with in particular using androids, and there there may have been a place in this story and this theme where that could have been an interesting conversation.

I'm gonna I'm gonna sound like Paul here. The thing that also is so dope about that particular moment is if we are looking at this trilogy as this was it, we don't get any we That's what I'm trying to do. Yeah. We're in a different timeline, and we don't get resurrection. We don't get Romulus.

We don't get any no AVP movies or whatever, you know, have you after. For a character that had great cause and reason to hate, rep, you know, replicants or androids or whatever they are in this to be here that little bit with one of the most Henriksen and Scott Glenn are, like, 2 actors that I think of that are just, like, whenever they're anything, I'm, like, you are so reliable. That's such a good comparison. Right. Like, I hate doing that, but that's so good.

Like, they're just in things and you're, like, I am so glad you're here. Right? And they're even better when they're that guy in that thing. You know? But they always add and that whole bit with him, essentially being VO or doing, you know, VO over a puppet, It makes if you as you said earlier, if you haven't seen any of them, here's where we're at.

But I wanted to feel that with both Hicks and you because that bit when he's talking and he's like, I what did he say what did he say? He, like, unplug me. I'd rather be nothing than this. Yeah. He's like, I hurt I hurt, like, unplugged everything.

Be I'll never be top of the line again. I'll never be top of the but that I'd rather be nothing than this or whatever that would be. Like, there's a thing about assisted suicide in this movie too that's wild. All and again, we're talking back to you nailed it with the which I, you know, I was like, oh, it's about agency and these things that now we're but we are there. Right?

Like, he asks for it. Yes. She but also their relationship. She. Yeah.

Yeah. Absolutely. That's what I'm saying. Everything is about her not asking for permission because she is a woman of agency or giving permission for thing or asking for things. But that that thing, all the, like, I believe their relationship's so hard.

Like, I am Yeah. That that emotion like, I'm feeling something emotionally in that moment. Yeah. Like, just those few lines and the way that he's conveying with her. And, again, right, we're all actors.

We've talked about this with CGI. We both of us couldn't help it even though we're silent for most of the movie. They were like, this is better than CGI Ian Holm. Yes. Yes.

But it was like Yes. Eyes are window to the soul. And I'm getting believing all of it because this inflection Yeah. Kinda work on the inflection. And also this idea of humanity, this idea of the Jekyll and Hyde thing, this idea of we are getting right because we see it with her, with her eye damage.

We're seeing it with him completely inhuman. And then we're also getting at the end of the film with Weyland Yutani at the end of the film with his ear, and we're talking a lot about humanity and monsters and the thing within and which we've been doing in these other films. But I just dude, Henderson's is so good in that bit, and she's so great. And what a great let's do actor talk a little bit. She's a great freaking scene partner there.

Oh, yeah. She's acting to I mean, let's be real, man. She's probably acting to a bunch of servo motors going off. Yeah. Right?

Like and and I that it is one of my absolute favorite. How you feel about the dance loss thing, I feel about this movie. I feel it twice, actually. You can do that. That again, we were silent through most of the movie, and we were both like, oh, man.

Like, in that moment, like, when you feel it in the voice of the performance and Yeah. Similar to because I'm on the character journey with Ripley, losing this character that gave everything to save the child Mhmm. Is just and all for naught. I understand if somebody comes in here and goes, this is a one. Yes.

That's justifiable. This movie is really hard. Monologues that Dutton has are hard to listen to, especially when you think of the context of Ripley's existence as we know it. And the one thing I just wanna go over before we get to the end is we did not talk Lanier through this movie. I did not No.

We didn't. Take notes. That's okay, though. No. I think it's better this way almost maybe.

Who knows? It was very live I mean, we kinda we kinda bounced around and kinda talked about it in ways throughout. Yeah. But I I think in the the third act, the movie trying to push forward the narrative of corporate ownership. They're almost universal domination that Weyland Yutani has in the way they want to manipulate Ripley.

They send like a a Weyland, a Bishop clone, something to try to manipulate her. You're impregnated by the alien. We don't want it. We wanna save you and kill it to we want to save you to okay, we really need the thing. He goes through pulls out all stops, goes through everything.

And similar to the first movie, just this one alien causes this absolute ruckus across 29 people. And one of those accidents is, like, not self inflicted entirely, but when dew drops the match and 7 or 8 guys are killed in this crazy fire. But Yeah. Just I I appreciate after everybody dying and Rock literally, like, fist fighting the alien and lasting a good minute of film. The only question is how you check out.

Do you want it on your feet or on your fucking knees begging? I ain't much for begging. Nobody ever gave me nothing. So I say fuck that thing. Let's fight it.

Through that which is so satisfying and killing it in the hot lead which was so cool and Moses and I were talking about, sudden shock syndrome that the movie shows us if you have this extremely hot thing and make it cold extremely fast, it's gonna break. And I've seen somebody put a hot pan on a cold granite countertop and seen it pop. And so the bucket cracking in the movie and then it being repeated with the alien where it's, like, not even hot lead kills this thing, and the sudden shock of the water. I found it very satisfying. Yeah.

I mean, I don't know if I needed to see Weyland. I love Lance Hedrickson, but I don't know if I needed. I get the idea of them putting a friendly face on and whether or not that's Weyland or not, probably isn't because why would they do that? Alien resurrection. And I like I like the idea that she sacrifices herself to kill this thing once and for all.

So good. Although we know probably will never be once and for all. It's kind of funny that the next movie is resurrections because it's such a bastardization of what this movie ends with, which is like, let's finish this. You know, it's kinda like if you think about it, like, Last Crusade ends with riding off to the sunset. It's the Last Crusade.

Mhmm. And then and then, like, the rest is just like, what? I mean, it really is like, stop. He's dead already. You know?

Like, the IP and resurrection already dead. The resurrections is really like and it does it in a meta level with resurrections where you're like, oh, you just you just are literally taking this IP and mutating it and making us watch it. I just feel very happy for Ripley at the end. And that's the thing that, like, I think makes this movie important and this trilogy important. This movie is dark and the ending is fucked up and it's hopeless and whatever.

And I'm like, good for her. And I think whether or not I like that Yeah. Good for her. I think we should I feel like we should re rank this movie. Does anybody have anything we missed?

The only thing that I wanna throw into this mix being a man of faith, and I it didn't dawn on me again until this revisit is I didn't remember until this watching it with you how much faith is interwoven into this film. Oh, yeah. The idea of there's depending on your thoughts on religion and faith and, you know, whatever. Right? Like, a huge thing comes up, and we obviously hit that nail on the head a lot in, Terminator 2, right, is, like, faith versus fate versus Mhmm.

These things. And I it was just one of those things that I was like, oh, there's a lot of what we make for ourselves. No fate. But there's so much religious imagery in this particular film. Mhmm.

And I just wanna comment it because we had it and it just seemed like the right moment to kinda pull it in was that it was a interesting thing to see that in this saga. I mean Yeah. Her and this is where those things on paper, like, I get it, but, you know, the Christ like Pose even as she jumps off. So good. I like that.

I like that. I love her short hair. I like her. Looks hot. She looks dope with short hair.

Because you started, and you're the you're the highest of us all in more ways than 1. I'm gonna go to you first. Wish. Dude, this is tough because I feel like I need a minute because I feel mildly shaken on my foundation, but I'm not sure. So I don't know if somebody wants to take the torch or wait for me for a couple seconds.

I can I can run with it if you want? I'm gonna stay at 4, but you can give your ranking. Never interrupt me when I'm talking to myself. Well, if you're staying at 4, then go for it. I'm staying at 4.

I I just think that the themes resonate. I think that it's a character driven movie. I think you said a lot of great stuff about prey in a different segment that I think this movie does very successfully. The movie, especially during moments where it's like, is this a reshoot, is not pretty to look at. Moments where it's a CGI alien that it sticks on a little too long are not great.

I love the set piece where they're trying to trap the alien between the doors, but it's also a couple doors a door, whatever, too long. It's not a perfect movie. I'm sure there are ways if it's like I got what I wanted to see or if I were to rewrite this, that I maybe could have gotten some sort more satisfaction out of it. Like I said about the ads in Girl With the Dragon Tattoo, get ready for the feel bad movie of the holiday season. Like, this is the new it's a movie where it's like either you can handle the taste of shit and you'll deal with it, or you will try to repackage it and put tinfoil around it and fish hooks on it and sell it to queen Elizabeth's earrings.

Whatever you need to do. I She's got a whole drawer of those. Real dangly ones. I hear what you guys are saying, but I think the movie does such a that's the other thing too. Moses hit on this where he was like, how does this movie make any sense?

And so knowing how the sausage is made, watching what I saw to not give it some sort or let it continue to keep that half point boost or point boost, whatever you wanna call it, based on just the sheer amount of obstacles for unnecessary characters. So I came into this conversation, honestly, almost going to 2a half before. Like, I mentioned a couple of things. I said tedious pacing for me. Mhmm.

The tension doesn't work. And I think at some point, my barometer started to lean that way. And then both of you made some really good points too of, like, the themes of this movie, agency of Ripley. The a lot of these individual scenes and and performances are really strong. And I I think what I what I keep coming back to is that the and I hate it's like it really does feel like this is a concept that is is just prime to be potentially one of the best in the series.

I think the concept, the ideas, the the intention behind the movie isn't in any way off kilter. I think it's actually a really fascinating direction to go. Alien Aliens is, like, great. We're taking Alien. We're upping it.

We're making we're upping the ante, and we're making it more of an action movie. We're kinda, like, building the world out more. And then this one's going and then this one, instead of going, like, up more, it's going kinda, like, sideways down a little bit, where it's like we're not doing we're not doing the same thing. We're doing something different. Yeah.

And it lean and it wants to lean more into being a thriller, a slow burn sort of, like, tense journey for and I I am on board for that. It just doesn't land in the way that I think it its intention is is there. Like, the intent is there, the impact isn't. So I'm gonna stay at 3 bloody dogs. It is definitely worth a watch, especially if you're an alien fan.

But even if you aren't, it's definitely worth a watch. And, yeah, 3 3 bloody dogs. I I think it's so funny because I I feel like I'm on the end of the seesaw with Ben or, you know, kind of right in the middle of the fulcrum there. Ben said a word that was in my head, as well, which is, like, intent versus execution. You know, movies like this are hard because the lore if you're a film nerd or an alien, you know, aficionado, like, you know the lore, you know the what could have been.

I love I still think about, like, the idea of the wooden planet thing. Like, I just think that's a really cool, weird idea that probably, again, is only good as an idea. Well, yeah, what purpose? I don't know. Aside from just being weird for word's sake.

Right? You know, we talk about Dodorowsky's Dune or something. You know, like, these things that just kind of live off in a thing for Superman nerds like me. Right? The Richard Donner Superman 2 movie.

You know, so we the Snyder cut was a thing. Right? Like, all these kind of things that you like and that's you know, it's a hard thing when you you can see the intent in everything. What I definitely wanna make sure that we have all absolutely agree on is, like, this has great acting in it, and it has, a really, really great cast. And Squee.

Yeah. Is great. And we don't say it enough or haven't said enough in this particular session. Like, Sigourney Weaver is she is there in every scene. I believe all the emotional stuff that Paul is really gleaning from the film is there.

Like, it is Yeah. She believes the things that I think Paul is interpreting. I believe that she is doing the thing. I don't know if I'm always feeling the thing. And I think a film like this that is doing this specific at the time thinking that they were closing out the saga, I don't feel that thing, and that's a bummer.

I intellectualize it, and I I can see all the things, so I still feel the same. I'm also at 3 special cocktails. I think it's it's worth watching if you're a fan of the series. Honestly, if you're not a fan of the series, I don't know if I'd fully recommend it because why? You know, just watch.

But that's that's maybe me being really, really specific about, you know. I don't think it is. I think I think this this movie only exists as the third part to a character story. I understand why it may not land or be as effective or satisfying for you guys in terms of the way that her story ends because that's the way I see this. Like, resurrection is some clone or I don't care if it exists.

It means nothing to me. I'm still kicking. I must be on Broadway. Everything you guys are saying makes sense. I really thought I was gonna be able to sway at least one of you.

I I just again, like, I just think it's it's a lot of half cocked ideas, and you you can do a lot of unnecessary work to be like, I want this to land, which is I think what I choose to do. And right or wrong, that's what I've chosen. You guys are out of your minds. I'll drink to that. By the way, next time you fight, try to keep your clothes on.

Anytime, anyplace, anywhere. If you ever need me, I'll be there. I love you, my friend. At the the strength of each of the films, the original trilogy, it's a simple idea. Yeah.

It is. I think that that's also a good thing. Very. And we were kinda talking about it earlier without jumping too much into it. But, you know, one of my favorite franchises is the Mission Impossible franchise.

And I think one of the strengths of it is that each film feels a little bit different. And whether you like it or not or hate it or not, Mission Impossible 2 kinda pushed it in that direction. And then by the time you jump into the other ones and you get ghost protocol and you get, you know, fallout and you get all these other ones and they all feel very different. I do really believe that this film sadly, the films that follow after it don't quite nail it. But it also I I do really respect the fact that each of these three films feel so dynamically different in terms of visual, in terms of vibe, in terms of Yeah.

You know. But again, that's me. What a good and spirited conversation we had everybody. Spirited, oh my gosh, it is spooky season. Bookends, Jamie Henwood.

What are we watching? What you've been doing? Are Matthew Foskett. Our interstitials are Ben McFadden. Our repeating guest is Moses Olsen who is literally sitting to my right and elbowing him.

Where can they follow you, Moses? Holy Moses on letterbox, w h o l l y m o s e s. We love you. We appreciate you. You don't have to just stay scared in October.

Stay scared all the time. Thanks for joining us. Would mind. Thanks, Moses. Thank you, brother.

Hi, everyone. This is JJ, the cofounder of Goodpods. If you haven't heard of it yet, Goodpods is like Goodreads or Instagram, but for podcasts. It's new, it's social, it's different, and it's growing really fast. There are more than 2,000,000 podcasts, and we know that it is impossible to figure out what to listen to.

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