RRR - Batman Returns...Returns (Guest: Mike Bowers)

The hell is this...oh! It's the first ever "Review Review RemixWind!" Enjoy this random recut of our classic episode for "Batman Returns" (D. Tim Burton 1992) with the fantastic Mike Bowers  of the 'Agree to Disagree' podcast. We took a whole 2hr edited episode and then smushed it, and crushed it, and compacted it, and compartmentalized it, and crammed it all into a neat little package just for you! More random noises! More music than before! More offensive than you recall! Turn on the bun toasters (heated seat), fill up the cocoa mug, and enjoy this listener fave at blazing BATMOBILE SPEED! (stand away from flame)

**All episodes contain explicit language**
Artwork - Ben McFadden
Review Review Intro/Outro Theme - Jamie Henwood
"What Are We Watching" & "Whatcha been up to?" Themes - Matthew Fosket
"Fun Facts" Theme - Chris Olds/Paul Root
Lead-Ins Edited/Conceptualized by - Ben McFadden
Produced by - Ben McFadden & Paul Root
Concept - Paul Root

Transcript

Why does everyone think Michelle Pfeiffer is so hot in this movie? Is anyone looking at Danny DeVito? I think Like it just Yeah. I was gonna say, I think it's because she is. But now, yeah.

When you put it that way. It's like it's just like a bunch of people are jumping on a train. Like, Penguin is the hottest part of this movie. Speaking of theme, hi. I'm Paul.

Oh, I'm Ben. I'm I'm Mike. And you're listening to, as you already know, the review review podcast. This is our morning Monday morning, Mimosa, Batman Burton brunch. Oh, I like that.

I liked that a lot. I couldn't I Yeah. On the fly. I don't know. You didn't write that down last night?

You didn't No. I should have. I should have. Yeah. That was good.

Monday morning mimosa Burton Batman brunch? Yeah. Morning mimosa Nope. Monday morning mimosas with Mike. So you made yours really strong then?

Burton's Batman brunch. It is good. I did good. Mike Bowers is here. Mike's an actor, a director, a producer.

I am. I am all those things. A writer? Yeah. I do a lot and don't get paid for almost any of it.

A singer? Yeah. A dancer? True. Choreographer?

A lover, a fighter, a believer, an achiever? A bitch, a mother, a child, a mother, a space cowboy? Oh, our listeners are back. Oh, okay. Well, Meredith Brooks is not happy, happy, but we're gonna push through.

Great. She listens. She's a listener. Yeah. Just like Eisner.

Exactly. Yeah. And Iger and all the all the fun folks. Mike, tell us what it is that you do. We're so excited to have you here.

Tell us about all these talents we just went over a little bit. I work production company called Conundrum Theater Company, where I production manage and I direct and I perform, and currently directing a production of Xanadot, which, has nothing to do with Xanadu other than to put on the title. Oh. But it's very fun, very gay. When did Xanadot come about?

Early 2000. Yeah. It was off Broadway, starring Jay Rodriguez of Queer Eye fame. One of those shows that not a ton of people know about, but people anybody who does love the show. We haven't said what Mike brought to us yet.

That's true. This is a nice tease. It's It's definitely on the title of this episode. Yep. I still like to I like to add the fake suspense.

They definitely clicked play on it knowing what movie we were talking about. But yeah. Sure. Part man's refund. Let's pretend like we're fuck it, Paul.

Oh, good. Yeah. Exactly. Fuck it. Mike, what movie did you bring us?

I brought the 1992 classic Batman Returns. And you might be thinking, does this break our franchise rule? You know what I'm thinking? Well, I don't give a shit what you think. Honey Badger doesn't give a shit.

Exactly. And neither do I. Yeah. I mean, we talked about this. When Mike brought it to us, I brought it to Paul and we're, like, does this break it?

And then I think maybe you made the argument that the nineties Batman movies are pretty standalone. They are. Yeah. They don't really feed into the next one. Maybe you could say And that was by design because Tim Burton hates doing sequels.

Men and Robin kind of are because of Chris O'Donnell being the overlap. But, I mean, I Holy rusted metal, McFadden. But, I mean, like, I think they something there. They definitely stand alone. Well, there there is a through line in in 2 actors.

Is that Pat Hingle and Michael Gough played Gordon and Alfred respectively in all four films. Yeah. Arguably not my favorite Gordon. No bad characterization of Gordon. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Not not a Like The Alfred though. Burton as well as Keaton were, like, look, this has gotta be its own thing. It cannot be a direct sequel.

We're not doing that. Yeah. And to all of our benefit Yes. I think. Yes.

Yay. Why did you bring this movie? What was your first experience with this movie? I first saw this when I was a teenager, maybe a preteen. Like, I can I can picture myself watching it at my dad's house because I definitely didn't see it in theaters?

But I'm pretty sure that I saw Batman and Robin in theaters, which then sparked wanting to watch more Batman movies and then either renting them from Blockbuster, RIP, or finding them on TV because this movie was on TV a lot. Yeah. Batman and Robin was your first on TV a lot. Yeah. Batman and Robin was your first theatrical Batman I think so.

Yeah. Experience. And, like, moving from that starting point, how was that journey? Like, moving forward and backward in that cinematic experience. Long time ago.

Oh, okay. I was gonna say, like, that being the starting point, that has to be, like Well, because when you're when you're a kid, like, that I was I was probably, like, 12 when that movie came out. Okay. And so, like, being a kid I mean, first of all, part of my queer awakening for 1. But, like, it being so colorful and zany I mean, like, those later Batman nineties movies were kind of made for kids more than a year.

They were much campier. Yeah. Not having read the comics at that point because I was 12, you know, not having seen a ton of Batman stuff before, I was just like, wow. This is really cool. Yeah.

I wanna see more Batman stuff. This is just so different than Batman and Robin in almost every way. Cool party. I think they were calling in the morning. Ice sweater.

I was like, oh, the penguin got a little, mister freeze line in there. You just need a drink of ice water to to cool off. Everybody never said. I always got Batman stuff for my birthday. So I had, like, a Batman bedspread that had, like, mister freeze and Batman and Robin and on it.

And I think my parents probably still have that somewhere, like, the sheets, the everything. And I remember getting a bunch of toys. I got, like, the Bane toy, and I was so excited. And I remember watching Batman and Robin being, like I'm what's year was that? 90 98?

97? And I liked Batman forever. I remember liking Batman forever and then I remember watching Batman and Robin being, like, I don't know I don't know if this is a good movie. I did not have that much discerning taste when I was not young. Nowadays, I feel differently.

I I think Batman Forever is the worst of the 4. I Batman and Robin, I just love because of how campy it is. Like, it is so campy. Yeah. So Uma Thurman is everything in that movie.

Oh, wow. Okay. I haven't watched it in a long time. Like, Like, my very first experience was, like, the Adam West TV show in reruns Which is in the seventies Excellent. When I was in my thirties.

Bam. That's how I think well, my first Batman experience would be the animated series. Oh, mine mine, honestly, outside of Adam West reruns was the 89 Batman. And it was quite an experience and similar to this movie. This is one of the first movies I ever remember, like, really looking forward to.

Batman Returns? Yes. As a kid, like, being super super hyped and then sitting in the theater and for a lot of this, just feeling really Dirty. Uncomfortable because that sexual tension bled through this movie. To me, even as like a young kid being like, I feel like all these people are saying and doing a lot of things that my dad gets, but I don't get, but I think I get.

You poor guys. And that Michelle Pfeiffer, wow wow even as a kid. Oh, so not Danny DeVito? I mean, at times. When he bites that guy's nose off.

People love that moment. People It's like he has real man 3 times Danny DeVito. Oh, really? Yeah. That's awesome.

So did it go Hoskins, DeVito, Hoskins, DeVito, Hoskins, DeVito? Of course. You know it. That makes a lot of sense to me, frankly. They they shared the cover.

I had a great time in the movie theater seeing this walked out, like, on a high. What I this was oh, man. I've probably seen this half a dozen times at least I watched this movie a lot as a kid too. I remember, like It was on TV a lot. Yeah.

When you saw it back then, what would you have said your review or your ranking out of 5 would have been back when you first saw it? 5 out of 5 manicurist. 5 5 out of 5 manicurist. I love that. Yeah.

Paul? Yeah. You're really cracking the whip here. Yeah. I give I gave this movie 4 out of 5 chips.

Dad, save yourself. 4 out of 5. That man was doing a walk in impression in front of Christopher Walken and I live for it. I think he's fucking great at it, frankly. I think he's really good.

The guy's such a doofus. He's Is Matt Shrek supposed to be Trump? Maybe. No. I don't know.

Because I I looked this up. He was not based off of anyone in particular, but the writer has enjoyed the comparisons to Donald Trump. Awesome. Writer being Daniel Waters, Sam Ham, both? Waters.

Waters. Yeah. Being the ultimate credited screenwriter makes sense. I think when I first saw this when I was a kid, I probably would have said 4 cats. More cats.

There you go. More cats. Menxies. I could've made it crude. I could've gone crude like Penguin does.

Mhmm. But I went crude last week, and I'm trying to I'm trying to pull back. I didn't think you weren't that crude. No. You called me out.

And now I feel choking around. Now I feel bad. Oh, I didn't mean to wound you. I had to use cat of 9 tails myself, like Paul Bettany in those terrible Dan Brown movies. Well, he was the only one.

Whatever. He's still cat of 9 tailed himself. He sure did. Yeah. Wow.

Cool movie. Cool party. Cool party. On that net woah. Is this cool party music?

I can't hear any music. I know exactly. That's fun and exciting. Isn't that isn't it a little terrifying? It's a little chilling to see me, like, woah.

Yeah. Like, looking up, like, like in that Superman meme where he's, like, flying, looks around. What are we watching now? Same matter. Can I get by some space?

I'm I mean, in in the vein of DC, like, the 4th season of Harley Quinn is airing, which is still so good. I like that show. It's very funny. The new show, My Adventures with Superman, is airing, which has been a really it's fun. The first That's quite good.

The first yeah. The first couple episodes, I was like, oh, you're doing something different. It's interesting. And the most recent episode had mixes Spidlick, and I'm a little bit I'm a little bit biased because a friend of mine voiced him. But, like I'm amazed that you can pronounce that.

What did you say? Mixie Spitalik. Mixie Spitalik. He just looked at Ben as if, like, it's so simple. Like, no I mean, I've I've been a DC Comics fan for a really, really long time.

Know who Mixie Spitalik is. Oh, he's a 5th dimensional imp. He's a chaos god. Oh, okay. Yeah.

And is it part of the his thing is that no one can pronounce his name? Part of it. And the way to and, historically, the way to get rid of him is to get him to spell or say his own name backwards. Oh, I think I know who this is. I just never know how to pronounce it.

There's an episode of, the adventures of Superman, the nineties, Tim, Bruce Tim won Yeah. Where super he makes his pill, like, turns into a rocket, and Superman leads him on a path throughout the city that in the smoke from the rocket spells out his name, and then he gets banished. One of my favorite episodes of that. I feel like I just never knew how to to pronounce his name. I can't I already know I can't.

I learned Mixxyzmixz spit What's your spitter lick? Rick. Mix, you spit on Rick. That Like, I thought you were getting a lot of funny. That's a different show.

I that that's what you said. We talked about. But, yeah, that that episode in particular of My Adventures With Superman was really, really good. And so now I'm just kinda like, I need more of this show now. I will say that when I worked at Hollywood Video RIP, something I always used to put on was Mask of the Phantasm.

Ugh. Yeah. One of the best that was ever made. It's it's way up there on my Batman list overall. Only Lego Batman.

Lego Batman. The heck. Really good. I actually did make a Batman list many, many months ago on my letterboxed. What, what am I watching?

I, in preparation for this film, I actually watched Tequila Sunrise with Mel Gibson Oh, you're you're my child. Kurt Russell and Michelle Pfeiffer. Because I just wanted a little Michelle Pfeiffer before I met Michelle Pfeiffer. Like you do. For my Michelle Pfeiffer Michelle Pfeiffer, she could've gone Greece too, but you went another way.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Wow. I sure did. I wanted to watch something I hadn't watched before.

And wow, what a great mistake it was. I've never even heard of that. And I don't mean great mistake, like, wow, this is a dream. Is that a drink? Tequila Sunrise?

It is. It doesn't matter. Can I keep wasting space? It's about a cop and a drug dealer in a love triangle with Michelle Pfeiffer. I I mean, that's wild that I I would never in my entire life watch that movie.

I just it was Kurt Russell whom I love. It was Robert Towne who has written some great stuff. Yeah. And, it was Michelle Pfeiffer. I needed a Michelle Pfeiffer chaser with my Michelle Pfeiffer that I was gonna have.

I saw Cousin? Yeah. What'd you see, Cousin? Forget about it, k. I saw Teenage Mutant to Turtles Mutant Mayhem Oh, come on.

In the movie theater. Mhmm. Capcom, dude. Animation is super dope. Have you seen it?

I have not, but I have actually never seen any turtles. Oh, wow. Woah. I know. It was a big I wasn't allowed to watch a lot of TV as a kid, and so Turtles was just something that I missed Okay.

Growing up. And so I never had any impetus to watch any of the movies or anything like that. And it's just been a big pop culture blind spot for me that Wow. I I will You missed it at the peak. I will rectify it at some point.

But I really hope that I don't know if it has the same nostalgic pull. I really hope you watch the Steve Barron film from 1990. I think it's a masterpiece. I mean, I'm a completionist. So if I Yeah.

If I start it, I'll finish everything. Oh, wow. Yeah. You're gonna again, you're gonna go on a journey. You will be regular menthol menthol.

There are so many turtles cartoons for like the Yeah. Like that came out after the eighties one that I didn't realize. Like there Yeah. There's, like, 6. There's so many.

I, I thought the animation was super cool. I really liked the soundtrack and the score. Trent Reznor and Natasquez Ross did the score. Wow. You know it's gonna be fire.

Yeah. All this nineties hip hop for the for the soundtrack. It was super dope. That's my land. First time ever we've had teenagers actually play the turtles ever.

Oh, great. That's fun. Yeah. Yeah. And I I really enjoy it.

I I gave it 3 and a half shells for me. I I like your rating. 3 and a half shells. Shell shock. That was the first thing that came into my mind.

Yeah. I was gonna say half shells, but then I was, like, wait a minute. Is 3 and a half half shells 7 shells? As a numbers guy Will they say turtles in a half shell? Turtle power?

Yeah. I think you can go either way. Think you've picked a winner in terms of rating system there. I'd say, like, Ice Cube as Superfly was really good. Nice.

Paul Rudd as, Mondo Gecko, was hilarious. I mean, they pulled they pulled all of the like, I had all these toys, you know. Like, I had I had Mondo Gecko. I had, Superfly. I'm really excited to see where it goes.

The only thing that I rubbed me a little weird is that it definitely felt more of a movie for the current generation of kids. Like, definitely more targeted towards them. No cap? Dead ass. Okay.

Yeah. That that's all I'll say. I don't wanna just give any more spoilers, but I'm actually I love a soundtrack movie as you know. So this episode was not brought to you by that movie. No.

We're not sponsored by Paramount. We were sponsored by the Red Triangle Gang. Red Triangle Gang. Need crimes done? Call the Red Triangle Gang.

They'll do your crimes for you. They will. Well, let's, let's talk about this movie. Archaeology is the search for facts. Somehow Palpatine returned.

We watched Batman Returns. He half returned, Bruce Batman, through the power of Warner Bros and PolyGram Filmed Entertainment. He did this in 1990 2. And if you were under the age of 13, you should have had parental guidance because holy smokes. Sex and everything.

There was I read it was there was a possibility of it getting an r rating because of how sexy it was. I did know the studio was not happy with this movie. It's what it Fuck the studio. No. But it's what it it's what it it's what It's why they pivoted.

It's what pushed Burton out. Yeah. Great. Because Fine. I'm pretty sure also McDonald's had toys lined up for this movie and then they pulled them.

And glasses and all sorts of stuff. They did. All sorts of jazz. Apparently, a huge reason for Schumacher and everything is the reception of this film and making marketing partners mad and Schumacher was told very clearly, apparently with forever, like, Carrie was partially like a, this is who you're casting. Mhmm.

This is I like this is what's happening. I like that they're like, make it brighter and Schumacher was like, okay, I'll make it super gay. Got it. Dude, whatever. The the Schumacher's are fun.

Yeah. Whether whatever anybody I'm surprised you think Batman Forever is the worst one. It's 2 faced for me. Oh, yeah. I I I feel Batman and Robin lean so hard into being ridiculous that I think I prefer the execution of it.

It's an easier watch for me. I think I just loved Jim Carrey's Riddler for me. Although I usually believe it was Chris O'Donnell privately, nearly daily. What? No.

Chris O'Donnell. Chris O'Donnell. Was that Bat Boy? Do you wanna hang out? No.

So you don't know who that was? Is this the Sox? Saying that? No. En Vogue.

Oh, really? No way. Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah.

I like that Alfred sees him with wet socks and is like, you know what? Superhero. Superhero. He's got it. He's in his dick.

He could easily buttle, which means superhero. He can ride a motorcycle. He can Alfred runs that shit. What sauce? He really does.

And dry them. The Christmas tree in this movie. It's like it's just the 2 of you and you know Alfred did that shit. Mhmm. You know he did.

The budget for the Christmas tree 80 year old man. $80,000,000. What? If it were the adjusted. Oh.

Because the adjusted is 174,300,000 but this had an $80,000,000 budget. Original Batman Tim Burton, 35. Wow. And weirdly, this movie feels Smaller. Less less expensive.

Like, much smaller. It feels like it's on the same set. But a lot of people fought for raises that were well deserved. Keaton in particular. Yep.

11,000,000 Mhmm. Apparently. Yep. Opening weekend, June 21, 1992. 45,700,000 adjusted.

That's 99.6. Wow. Final gross in North America was 163,000,000. That's 355.1 adjusted. Global, 267, That's 581,700,000 adjusted.

Yeah. The super You know what this do you say? People always say Yeah. Fine. Yeah.

Fine. They point to MCU as being, like, the thing that it's like this craze has been happening for for so long, the superhero craze. I think the 89 Batman was the thing that put it into, like, the social like, into the zeitgeist. And it it's had ebbs and flows over the last several years. It's been more of a flow.

Well Oh, yeah. Those floodgates opened. Yeah. I mean, it's now well, now I guess it's But I mean, we also had the the Christopher Reeves Superman movies in the 80th. Oh.

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I Before that it was maj mostly television.

And, like, even to the Donner cut preferably, 2 is solid, but, like, I guess it's, like, I see everything between Superman and Batman is, like, a blank space in my brain. I don't immediately think of anything. Over between the Christopher Reeve and this one. And Howard the Duck? Yeah.

I wonder if there was ever discussions to do it for George Lucas. A cross over between the Christopher Reeve and this one. And Howard the Duck. Yeah. It would be Marvel DC.

But the other releases this weekend, has anyone else seen The Player, the Robert Altman film with Tim Robbins? No. Please watch that movie. It's true. As we watched kind of a noir film to a degree.

Robert Altman doing noir? Yeah. It's a modern noir. It's I believe it's Fred Ward. Tim Robbins I heard this recommended to me before.

It's about the industry. Mhmm. And Yeah. It's And Yeah. It's really, really, really great.

This weekend's top five, this movie, another really, really excellent movie, Sister Act, another really, really excellent movie, Patriot Games, another really, really movie that I haven't seen probably. House Sitter and Lethal Weapon 3. House of note from this year. Also rep recommended to me recently. Which one?

House Sitter? Yeah. Okay. But I've never seen it. Never seen it.

Okay. My my time is not valuable. Sure. Who knows? Films of note from this year.

Home Alone 2, Lost in New York. That was my Marv. Yeah. No. I got it.

We got it. You didn't have to explain it. The Blade Runner re release happened this year in movie theaters. Your director's cut? Trespass Trespass maybe it was.

I don't know. Trespass with iced tea. White Sands. Has anyone seen White Sands? Little Mickey Rourke.

Willem Dafoe. Yeah. Not not my favey movie. Hellraiser 3 toys. Toys.

I love toys. Captain Ron man, Kurt Russell, baby. Captain Ron. Candy man, 3 ninjas. Rocky does love MOE.

The first three ninjas. Let's be honest. White men are unable to elevate, cannot jump. I don't think white men are not elevating actually. No.

They don't. They fail and then they still elevate. Yeah. God, look at Chip look at Chip Shrek. And Is Chip Shrek Shrek?

He's like the proto. He's like the in between Christopher Locke and then Shrek Shrek. And, Ben's favorite movie was Steven Seagal under CEH. It is a Die Hard movie. The top Die Hard on a boat.

Top five movies this year domestically were this film, lethal weapon 3, the great sister act, home alone 2, Austin, New York, and Wayne's World. Basic Instinct was almost there. Speaking of sexy movies thank you, Mike. Fucking great. Horny movie.

Very good. Very horny. Partially good because it's horny, and horny because it's good. It's why I keep a knife under my pillow. Do you really?

No. Okay. That'd be terrible. Letterbox average on this 3.5. I actually thought it might be That's low for me.

I know for you it is. For you Actually, we don't know. We don't we don't know our we don't know our He said it was a 5 a moment ago, at least when he was a child. Yeah. A child.

And children are dumb. As a child. Children are dumb. The first sons of Gotham smell you later. Don't care.

See you. 1st sons of God. Yeah. That's a little no. Actually, it's a lot.

My Letterboxd, if you wanna know a lot of the things that I watch and waste my time with, it's at Paul acts badly. On that run DMC. Mike's on Letterboxd. I'm at bikemowers. Damn right.

Exactly. This movie started and I went, Paul Reubens? Yes. Alright. What?

I, He also reappears as his character in Gotham. That's Awesome. I did not know that. Not this not technically the same character, but also Oswald's father. Oswald's father.

Yeah. That's rad. Sysco gave it a a pretty enthusiastic thumbs up. Evert, the down. There was a split here.

And I can see, I love Mike just rolls the eyes, like, through like, and they went to the back of the head and then came through underneath, rolled the eyes that hard. He's a professional. He rolled all the way around. Like Roger Ebert's reviews. I am an Ebert fan usually, not always.

I even as a kid I would every time that I I would watch the Sysco New York TV show Yeah. And At the movies. Every every time Ebert would say some shit that I'd be like, no. Yeah. There was a lot of things where, like, it would start to go dark or a little fantastical and he was like, no thanks.

And that's when I start to, to disagree with him. But there are some things, like, where he kinda takes down Deuce Bigelow European Jiggle and I'm like, yeah, dawg. Roll. Preach. Is that really that hard to take down?

No. But he he and Rob Schneider Wait. Hold on. Is that the sequel? Yeah.

Yeah. He and Rob Schneider had a big 2 of those? They made a sequel. They had a big, like, publicized feud over how hard Roger Ebert went after these movies. By the way, Rotten Tomatoes likes Batman Returns to the tune of 81 percent fresh.

That's what I'm talking about. It was directed by Tim Burton. Did you know that? What? Yeah.

Shocking. He directed Frankenweenie. Oh, he's directed other stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Pee wee's Big Adventure and Big Fish, Odd Pools. I would have gone Now we have. Beetlejuice Beetlejuice. Can't work with a professional.

Okay. Hey. There he is. Well, this this episode just got 14% sexier. Nice fucking models.

Mhmm. It was already gonna get pretty sexy. Writer Sam Hamm, unfortunate name. Jon Hamm's Jon Hamm. Batman Batman 2, unmade.

I read it, and it's not bad. The one that was written for Burton to direct? Correct. Okay. And that was one that they were, like, no.

But that that was when they were they were gonna keep Vicki Vale Yep. In and Harvey Dent. Right? Mhmm. Yep.

And Robin? And Robin was gonna be introduced. Waynes. He had not he had been he was contracted. Right.

To show up in the second and or third. Mhmm. Originally, the second, then they scrapped him. Right. And then Burton's planned 3rd, which got scrapped.

Right. He also did monkey bone in the same band. Brennan Fraser. There you go. Cornish College of the Arts, Brandon Fraser.

Oscar Woodman. Always makes it about him. Daniel Waters. Nice competition. He did Heathers, Hudson Hawk, demolition man.

Oh. Demolition man. What a good What a good TV, baby. Also, Mark is Bob Kane and Bill Finger. Must be enough.

Creators of Batman. To Bill Finger. Yep. Director of photography was Stefan Schatsky? Zap Zapsky?

Zapsky. Stefan Stefan Zapsky. Ed Wood, also a Tim Burton movie, which I enjoyed. Blades of Glory and, Davido Matilda. Music was Danny Elfman, which the the Batman animated theme is my ringtone.

It's so good. It's I wake up to that every morning. Did you know his first movie was Pee wee's Big Adventure? Really? That was the first time he'd ever composed for a film.

He'd only done Oingo Boingo. In this case, it's a dead cat's party. Well, and the theme song for the Batman animated series and the Batman theme for this are very similar. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

They're almost identical. So Oh, yeah. Alright. Batman Men in Black, also a great theme. Nightmare Before Christmas.

Bangers. Also, Sam Raimi's Spider Man's. Mhmm. Bangers. I like those that soundtrack.

Producers, John Peters, Wawa West. And he's, like, a big spider. You know? He's the one that was the the, hairdresser Yes. Before he became a producer.

I was like, we gotta Superman's gotta fight a well, I'm gonna fight a bear. He needs a robot. That's so crazy. This industry is wild. It is.

Superman, the 78 one, Ali. Are these different movies? And Peter Goober. What is Peter Goober? Oh, that's a person.

He's a Goober. Peter Goober did Clue, Interspace, and Tango and Cash. Tango and Cash. Michael Douglas Keaton. Keaton Douglas is Bruce, Batman, Wayne.

Odd Poles here. Night Shift, The Squeeze, and Pacific Heights. I'm not gonna know what you talk about them. Michael Not Mr. Mom, not Multiplicity.

Yeah. Not Beetlejuice. These are other Douglas movies. Michelle Pfeiffer as Selena Kyle slash Catwoman, White Oleander, Tequila, Sunrise, and the Russia House. Again, odd.

Where are these Achilles' poles? Who does this? Paul's an insane person. Ben? Danny DeVito, Oswald, Couplepot slash The Penguin, The Ratings Game, Wise Guys, and Space Jam.

You picked weird stuff. And this entry's Dennis the Menace. Twins? Yeah. Dutch.

Anyone? Don't just don't want me to know. Don't indulge him. Movie? Christopher Walken.

Chris died, go. Save yourself. Max Shrek. That go. Wayne's World's 2 Wayne's World 2, The Deer Hunter, and the Prophecy.

Sure. It's Goff, I believe. Michael Goff. But English being what it is, it could be I mean, it's g o u g h. So It's yeah.

Alfred, top secret, Sleepy Hollow, and witness for the prosecution. Andrew that's interesting. His name is Chris Lars. I've seen that Chip. Yeah.

He's Chipshreck. The program and A football player again. Street fighter in 1994. Zangief. He was also Leatherface in the Texas Chainsaw reboot.

Uh-huh. Funny story about that movie. Me and my buddy, Matt, were on our way to few we're in high school. I think, like, senior of high school. Right?

This is a funny story. It's hilarious. We're supposed to go tour a college. Neither of us had signed up for to go to college. And we're driving there, and we're almost to the freeway.

And I was like, you know, we could just go see Texas Chainsaw Massacre instead of Oh, boy. And he was like, yeah. I'll do that. So we just instead of going in the freeway, we took a left in the movie theater and went to school. Fully prepared to roast you for this not being funny, but that really made me laugh.

He got there. Pat Hingle, RIP Commissioner Gordon, Hang them High, The Quick and the Dead, and 89 Batman. I'm gonna back you up a half a step. Please. Michael Murphy was, like, mayor of Gotham City.

Oh, right. Yeah. If anyone's seen Tanner 88, it was a series. It's very good. He was in it.

Go on, Ben. Paul Reubens, r I p. Tuckle Yeah. Tucker Cobblepot, Pee wee Herman's, Pee wee's Playhouse, fly the navigator below Mystery Men's and Madrick and occupy these things. Like the TV.

Also, I wanna mention, Doug Jones is in this movie. Yes, he is. Jan Hooks is in this movie. Doug Jones is the skinny skinny Skinny clown. Skinny clown.

Yep. With this, I read, this was considered his breakthrough role. I've yeah. That makes sense. Great physical actor.

He's been super young. Great actor in general, but jeez. Awards nominations, it was an Academy Award nominee for best visual effects and makeup. Both Yeah. Definitely.

Yeah. The makeup's amazing. The Just on Cobblepot alone. Fun facts. Fun facts.

Fun facts, everybody. It's fun fact time. DeVito was advised by friend Nicholson, Jack Nicholson, aware of his own financial success with Batman to take the role of the penguin. Mhmm. Although Jack Nicholson's contract for that was ridiculous.

He gets money on anything that's Batman in perpetuity. 10% of the profits, I think, moving forward. Yeah. Anything that has Batman on it. Wow.

Smart move. Yeah. Yep. At the time, the studio was like, sure. We need your star power.

Fine. Yeah. Didn't realize what that was gonna end up costing them. At least 50% of the Warner Brothers lot was taken up with Gotham sets. I don't want everyone to know where I live, but it's not too far from here.

Don't tell them. I already tweeted the address. Damn it. You x'd it? We're gonna get swatched.

What you call it a stamp? Tame king penguins tame king penguins in captivity are only kept in Cotswold, deep in the English countryside. The birds in the film were flown over in the refrigerated hold of a plane. Given a refrigerated trailer, around the clock bodyguard, and swimming pool with half a ton of fresh ice every day and fresh fish delivered daily from local docks. Transparency in Hollywood.

I need to know the penguin budget. I I wish I wish I had stumbled on that Like because I'm so I wanna know how much of the overall what percentage of the overall budget of this movie was spent on literal penguins? Well, some of them are puppets at times. There are. There's mechanical ones.

There are people in costumes. Yeah. What It's like when they're bringing, spoiler alert, penguin into his watery grave Yeah. I'm like, those are not real penguins. What what Jess, like, looked up to her computer, and saw when the penguins all the penguins are marching into Gotham Square with, like, the rockets on their back, and she's like, oh, best part of the movie.

Penguins were unconscious. I'm in. Yeah. Morgan Freeman somehow narrating? Watch as the penguins march.

Michael Keaton was alleged to have earned 11,000,000 for reprising his role as Batman. Quite a raise. Tim Burton was reportedly uncomfortable with casting Christopher Walken. Go take yourself. That man scares the hell out of me.

Direct quote apparently. Mhmm. And he went on to cast him as the headless horseman. So Yep. And that's why you gotta love casting directors because the casting director convinced him to cast it.

Yep. Marion Doherty? Yes. Yep. The bat suit received several modifications, including shoes, Nike Air Trainer to modified Air Jordan sixes Yep.

New chest plate, and at the request of Keaton, a zipper to the parts. To the pants? Oh, that makes sense. It wasn't yeah. To the pants.

I mean, it makes sense for his parts. He wanted to zipper in the pants. I imagine I always feel when I see room for those bat balls. Superhero suits. I'm always like, that it looks like the most uncomfortable thing in the world.

And if you have to take a pee or a shit Yep. Evangeline Lilly's talked about in an interview about how all of the men complained in Marvel were complaining about how uncomfortable their costumes were. And when she put hers on, she was like, oh, no. This is just standard stuff for being a woman. This is what I wear.

Jeez. Apparently, the monkey actor on set was terrified of Avia's character makeup and once attacked him, lunging immediately for his testicles. I love that. I'm so sorry. It's so him lunging immediately for his testicles.

I love that attack. It's so good. Luckily, the heavy padding and rubber protected him from any harm, and the animal was removed from the set. Without being harmed as well. No.

They killed it. They fought it. It was like, oh. Monkey back and shoot it. Annette Benney.

Okay, Tim. Annette Benney was originally cast as Catwoman. Mhmm. Actress Sean Young from Ace Ventura Pet Detective lobbied for the role. She would dress up and act like the character in interviews and on talk shows.

Also sending unsolicited audition tapes to Warner Brothers and Burton personally. Oh. I mean, that's kinda how people do it now, but it's just online. She was a trailblazer. I'm sorry for that.

I mean, like, fucking Tom Holland, that's basically how he got Spider Man. That's true. It was just online. Keaton only agreed to return after a raise and guarantee from Burton that would be there would be a standalone story and not a direct sequel to the film. He agreed to return.

Not as clever you think. Danny DeVito Also, he needed the money for a real estate deal. Oh, really? Mhmm. Wow.

In LA, probably? Mhmm. Yeah. Danny DeVito read in the trades that he was being considered for the penguin over a year before the part was offered to him. Mike, you've listened to this podcast before.

Mhmm. What is the log line for this movie? Batman returns. That's a good start. I think what are the more you're making?

I mean, that's all I would need. Sold. I don't think they need I was. They don't even need a long one, really. Batman returns to face new foes in Catwoman and the Penguin.

That's a Sure. Good large chunk of it. While Batman deals with a deformed man calling himself the Penguin, wreaking havoc across Gotham with the help of a cruel businessman. 800 Square foot zone of Gotham. A female employee of the latter becomes the cat woman with her own vendetta.

Oh, woah. We're actually getting pushed out right now by the by the Red Triangle gang. This episode was brought to you by Red Triangle Gang, and they want their ad time, like, now. Well, we better take our break now. Doug Jones is here, and he is serious.

Hello, everyone. 'Tis I, Ben. Did you know I am also a producer of 1448 Hollywood, the world's quickest theater festival? What is that, you ask? Well, good question.

1448 Hollywood is one of Hollywood's most exciting nights of live theater. We bring together artists of all disciplines from all over Los Angeles to collaborate and create 14 world premier plays in just 48 hours. Talk about a pressure cooker. Come both nights and see 7 new plays each night. Here's the gist.

We gather 7 writers, 7 directors, 25 ish actors, and a handful of designers and musicians on Thursday night. We draw a random theme suggested by one of our participants that finishes the following sentence. I would like to see 7 plays about blank. The writers are sent off to write a 10 minute play based on that theme. By 8 AM the next morning, writers submit their plays.

Each director then draws a play and their cast at random. We rehearse. We block. We score. We design.

We build. We panic. We calm down. And then at 7:30 PM, we perform 7 world premier plays twice again at 9:30. And if that's not enough, we do it all over again with a new set of plays and a new theme on Saturday.

What can we say? We can't get enough. Oh, and the best part? All tickets are pay what you can because we believe, truly believe, that theater should be accessible to everybody. 1448 Hollywood, the world's quickest theater festival, is January 31st February 1st at 7:30 and 9:30 PM, both nights at the Broadwater Mainstage.

Follow us on Instagram at 1448 Hollywood. That's at 1448 Hollywood, or visit 1448 hollywood.org for more information. Oh, and be sure to come early or stay a little late to enjoy a drink at the Broadwater Plunge and say hi to me, Ben, your favorite host, your favorite host of the review review. Thank you, and we'll see you at the theater. It's 111.

It's 111. The red triangle gang, the Illuminati says we're back. It's 111. It's Monday morning mimosas with Mike for Burton's Batman brunch, Illuminati. As you've listened to the show, you know our call is Weird.

Interesting, funny, handsome, interesting. Sure. Serious. Yeah. Those things.

Loud. Loud is good. Frustrating. Obnoxious. Here.

Paul is here. Paul is here. You know who else is here? Ben and Mike are here. Hey.

That's true. We're back to talk more Batman. Batman. Same mother. Can I buy some space?

So now that we've given the fact sheets Also, why are they the red triangle? Is it just because they have red triangles on them? Yeah. I don't think This is not a thing from the comics that I recall. No.

No. No. There's a lot of liberties taken in general. Mike, you're the guest. What's your current ranking?

Warner Brothers Kmart. Oh, yeah. Actually, he gets to decide the order of how He does. You wanna share who shares their current ranking. We just watched this.

I watched this last night. Me too, as did I. Okay. Where's everybody at? I mean, I'm still at 5 out of 5.

Awesome. Who do you wanna go next? Ben, because you're next to me. So Okay. Yeah.

You can't justify it. Sure. Not because you like him better. Not because he's funny handsomer. I'm no.

No. That's That's all it is. I'm fine. Paul's here. Paul's here.

I'm just kidding. A lot. I'm doing my part. I'm doing my part. We did Starship Troopers.

A movie I adore. I am doing my part. Yes, child. I'm gonna say this and I hope that I don't get beaten down by everybody because I feel like I'm gonna get attacked. But, I'm Excellent.

I'm going straight for the testicles. Just like that movie? Well, I'm going for the gut. Great. Oh, yeah.

Bottom. Good. Which is referential to the film. I'm at, I'm at 3 and a half cats. Okay.

Wow. Mike just Yep. That was a lot. The eyes rolled 3 times. It looked like a slot machine, like, rolling.

He looked over to the right. I feel very ashamed. I'm gonna count a 9 tails myself. Now I have a mission to raise that score. Moving to a different Paul, not Bettany, but me.

Not Reuben's, but me. Not Verhoeven. But me. I was very close to falling where you fell, Ben. Actually, I was very close to a 3 and a half I was very close to 3 and a half chips.

God, no. And this case is a tomato chip, which has 3 corners. The red triangle, gang. He's such a doofus. I'm not.

Oh, sorry. He's here. I forgot he's here. I still rate this for chips. This it makes sense this was nominated for Oscars.

There are Oh, yeah. And there are things about this that I feel like have basically been non existent for the last 15 or 20 years, I e partially how horny it is, and how much sexual tension there is, and how much subversion there is, and the lines that come through in this. This is one of those definitive, like, yeah, I took my kid to this movie. And there were a lot of lines I laughed at, and my kid just laughed. I hope he didn't understand them because there's so many things in this movie where you're like, holy shit.

I didn't realize so much innuendo. Yeah. Part of what I could afford. Innuendo. Yeah.

I have to say 3a half is still a good score for me. I like 3a half. You say that every episode. Defense. I like 3a half star movies.

Me too. That's my most common rating on Letterboxd. You can follow me. Paul x Badly on Letterboxd. We'll see.

I like a lot of movies. It's like and I I write us a weekly substack of, like, everything that I watch through the week and Awesome. My most common rating is 8 out of 10. Okay. Well, you want it to 4 star.

I'm like, it Can I tell them where they can find that? Yeah. Mikebowers.substack. Com. Awesome.

I like that. And I link it every week on my Instagram. So I like that. Get the movie. Stack the RWBY.

Stack the RWBY. And now, our feature presentation. The life and attempted pangicide of the Cobblepots to start this movie. Well, so the, it's everything's a flip. Also, we start in the model of the Cobblepot's house.

The man man The miniatures. And the miniature is is in the, academy museum. Oh, nice. Makes sense. Yeah.

But the miniatures in this movie are fucking stellar. Yeah. After we see a felicid by the penguin and Paul Rubens tries to kill his son by dropping him in a river. It's interesting we see the penguin kill a cat. He kills a cat?

Oh, of it yes. I thought the same thing where it's like, oh, foreshadowing. Got it. And I also felt I loved it. You loved the killing of the cat?

Foreshadowing. Why do you always paint Do I need to rescue your cat? Is that amazing? But I I do love that the journey is through the sewer. It's like, okay.

We're more so going on the penguin's journey When they dumped them, came into the river or whatever, did they think he would sink? Because it looked like the mom was like They didn't put rocks in the bathroom. Like the brightest parents. No. Yeah.

They're rich parents. Something that's not really referenced is that, like, the Cobblepots and the Waynes are like the in Batman lore are like the 2 families that build Gotham. Let's say they run-in the same social circles. Yeah. They're like the 2 first families of Gotham.

They they're like the ones who build it, which isn't really referenced in this part. Well, and I I just love, like, they really lean into very early in the movie. Like, the this is Batman as a mirror. Mhmm. Like, imagine if his mirror That's what Cobblepot usually is.

Also, look out for the fake news as Alfred does. The liberal media machine? No thanks. When the kids, like, try to give them the paper and Alfred's like, not that rag. Oh, yeah.

Because they're I mean, I'm sure it's more like the New York Post. They're light they're lighting the still. The Christmas tree that's clearly at 30 Rockefeller Center. Mhmm. That's what it looks like.

But only 800 square feet. Yeah. It only holds 40 people. Very small 30 Rockefeller Center. Yes.

And that's where we meet ice queen. Is that what they call it? The ice princess. Ice princess. Lighting the tree.

Yep. And the mayor's there. Who what's the mayor's name? I mean, it's not Hill. Like, they did not go that deep into the lore.

Jason. I know it. But he's there. He's incoming though. Integral part of the movie.

He's only he's the only important not. His His his role is is is integral. All that matters is you know that he's counter to Shrek's plan. Yes. That's all that's important because Wanes into him.

Yeah. Yeah. Because Shrek needs Clogged device. A, yeah, a new mayor. Yeah.

Plug device. To do his own scheming plans of toxic waste slash murdering people. I don't know what he's doing. Hoarding power. Creating a a rechargeable battery.

By the way, does anybody think the capacitor is, like, hey, in case anything does go wrong, it would be nice to have that. Flux capacitor? It pulls power. Does it also push power out? Because it's actually not a bad idea to have a backup.

Are are you pushing power out? I'm just saying, if you sign the contract, you'll have a backup battery. Are you interested? You lost it. It got a little weird there.

Oh, did it? I like that. Go. Take yourself. Not go.

Maybe the middle there was kinda strange. Kinda sound like Go on. Like a clown. Yeah. Like a skinny clown.

Like it went from walk in to Chip doing walk in to walk in again. Thank you. Okay. I like the floating. Penguin does that.

He's great at it. Okay. Corn dog. So then we do we get do we get the clown gang or the red triangle gang at the beginning? They attack, like, the tree lighting ceremony.

And there's a cool, like, effect where they, like, get shot out of a cannon onto the tree, and they're just causing general mayhem. Havoc. General mayhem. Yep. Havoc.

General mayhem. People saluted. That was good. Thank you. You're welcome.

The situation's diffused. I found it interesting that he chose to use the circus thing again after just doing the Joker. That was an interesting Although his gang is not, like, circus. They're more like abstract artists. They were mice.

Yeah. They were mice. In the the comics, like, his gangs are circus people. Yeah. But he didn't lean into the circus very much with I know.

I think for me, I have to separate this from being a Batman movie and being a a Tim Burton movie. And as a Tim Burton movie, I really, really, really love it. Okay. That's why I'm falling in the middle. Look.

As a Tim Burton movie, I love this movie. I think it it's there's so much I love about it. As a Batman adaptation, it's not my favorite. According to Kevin Smith, in the words of Tim Burton, anybody who knows me knows I would never read a comic book. Tim Kevin Smith.

Oh, that explains the 89 Batman. Got it. Yes. Very that. Very that.

You stupid corn dogs. I love that line so much when we, like we meet Selena Kyle shortly after this. And she calls herself a stupid corn dog, which, like, slays Is this the one I'm hearing that Shrek is having with the Where she tries to where she tries to interject and he's like, know your place, bitch. Because she's a woman. Yeah.

She makes great coffee. But why would she couldn't have a original thought. No. I like that this movie is extremely, like, feminist throughout. Pretty regularly.

A lot more than 89 Batman. Yes. He's doing a much better job. Kim Basinger screaming the whole movie. Oh, boy.

Yeah. He's giving Temple of Doom. Kate Capshaw runs the movie. Not as not as bad as Temple of Doom. Temple of Doom makes you crazy.

Watch this. 89 Batman? Yes. It's been a it's been a It's been a while. I'm I am glad that I rewatched it.

Did you watch it before this or after? Before. Oh, okay. I watched them in a little later. You really are a completionist.

I am. Yeah. I appreciate it. Yeah. I really love it.

I just put in all the way where people. Batman Returns, I was like, okay. Now give me some doctor Chase Meridian Nicole Kidman being extra, like, I want. And we get one movie with her, which is like fine. Heartbreak feels good in a place like this.

I'll stay in the franchise. It's all good. Who you talking to? Who you talking to? Because here, they are.

So Batman gets called in for the first time. And apparently, the bat signal now bounces directly into his house and no one is notices. No, like it's like, wait. The bat signal literally goes right there into that guy's Well, he's reflecting it from Skye? Mhmm.

I guess. Here's the thing about the bat signal. It doesn't make sense It's easy to find. In any It could even. Work in like It could not work.

It doesn't work. Like, it just unless you have clouds all the time, and it's, like, the most powerful beam in the world. Well, and I love how in the 2 subsequent films, they found ways to with the bat signal of, like, having the question mark and having the Nightwing symbol and, like Yeah. Just, like, okay. None of this works.

It's almost as if it's based on a comic book. Almost as if. Batman shows up, he rotates the Batmobile, and he sets a motherfucker on fire. Yes. He does.

He just sets a dude. Purely sets him on fire. Like, Burton burns, so Snyder could shoot, baby. Just like, where are we? He does so we don't get a we don't get a montage of him in the Batman at this moment.

Right? He just shows up. Right. Right. The montage comes later.

Yeah. Yeah. That's a shoehacker thing. Well, we do get a montage in this. Right?

It's just later. I don't recall. Yeah. We do. Of him putting on the suit?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because he goes into the he goes into, like, the mummy thing later and it, like, retract and he slides down. Slides down.

And he goes in there and, like, we see him, like, they're, like, hanging up on Oh, multiple suits. Right. You're right. Yeah. Yeah.

Because there's a little yes. You're right. It's not as intense as the Schumacher. No. It's just the classic montage to get ready to go be Batman, just like the classic, like, Burton sweeping through the zoo to show us, like, Penguin's whole lair and everything.

And, like, DeVito, wow wow wow wow. Like, I I love, we met we've already met Christopher Walken. He's the Santa of Gotham. Good night, moon. No.

I don't know what that was. It's gonna keep happening. We get the miniature of the zoo, which is dope. Yes. It's really good.

And then goes into the somehow the penguin exhibit is connected to the sewer. Don't ask questions. Let it go. Oh, I never ask questions watching this movie. It's Frozen.

Let it go. Oh, different movie. And somehow all the freaks from the circus live in that Yeah. That's where freaks belong. I love it.

It's the island of misfits. I mean, it's it's very it's also like how Killer Crocs story goes too. Sure. It is true. It is true.

I love the, Davido when he's with Max Rek with Christopher Walken when he's going through the evidence he has against him, the papers and the toxic waste, and he hands off his former partner's hand to him with a handshake. Yes. Little Joker energy still there. It's good. So good.

Yeah. And he's gonna blackmail him into making him so all he wants is to get access to these files so he can find all of the firstborn sons of Yes. Gotham. He doesn't wanna become mayor. That's not the thing.

Shrek thing. But then he's still recognizes the value of it. Yeah. Yeah. Shrek wants to place a political puppet to get what he wants.

He wants to make this power plant, political puppet, power plant, ship Shrek. Great. Got it. Right. And they set up the thing again with the relighting of the tree again, and Yeah.

The penguin saves I like that when that dude comes along and steals the baby. The woman just kinda, like, lets him have it. She doesn't, like, oh my god. Like, anybody wouldn't be holding your baby so fucking tight. Of course.

But this guy just grabs it, and nobody is, like, chasing him. I feel I like, there's an element of, like, shell shock, which you shouldn't have because you're just in Gotham. This type of shit just beats happening. In Gotham. I mean, that's the that's the thing that Jack Nicholson says in 89 Batman.

It's like, if you can't handle living here, don't live here. It's like LA. I by the way, I love I love Selena Kyle's apartment set. Mhmm. I think it's great and her interaction with the cat and voice mail.

The number of times in my life that I have quoted that line, honey, I'm home. Alright. I forgot. I'm not married. You coming back to tell me about your sexual exploits?

Also just the Talk to her cat. Jess called it I believe she called it millennial pink is the color of Hello. Her apartment, which apparently has come around to being a big Okay. Popular color to paint with. It is very, like, cutesy.

Her apartment has stuffed animals Yes. And she is, like Her neon sign that says, hello there. That's the Sperryune McGregor s. Is this the beginning of that trope of, like, here is, like, the for for supervillains in particular, like, the glasses, messy hair, and then something happens to them and, like, because the Riddler does it. It's the same exact thing.

Mhmm. Poison Ivy does it. Poison Ivy does it. And then they do it in the Kristen Wiig. 86 or 88 Wonder Woman order.

84. 84. I was like, goddamn it. Kristen Wiig's journey mirrors this one Yeah. A little bit.

Yeah. Absolutely. But I and I think, like, it took it to the next level and the and her part in the Wonder Woman 84 movie for me was the only good part of that movie. Yeah. That movie's not good.

It's deleted from my brain. I know I've seen it. I like Joe's first. Remember Awful. Some people who were in it and some of them I like Pedro Pascal.

Yeah. Sure. I didn't like him as Maxwell Lord. Yeah. I by the way, there are rarely so many lines in this movie hit me.

Mhmm. And especially lines that seem like they're spoken so spontaneously and very naturally. When she says, how could you be so mean to someone so meaningless? When she screams that at Max Shrek when he's gonna kill her. And when she murders She realizes that she forgot to give him the his speech Right.

And then goes back to the office and then somehow just starts looking through files? Well, no. So when she's in her apartment and she's listening to her voice mails Right. She had left herself a voice mail being, like, you're an idiot. Do your job.

You forgot to do this. Yeah. Because she knew that she would forget to do it. And so and that's why she went back to the office to pull the records. But then she's looking through other, like, records.

She's overdoing it. She's too she even says, am I doing too good of a job? And he's like, maybe. Maybe he'll do too well. Kill you.

Gotcha. God. And, like, I forgot that he does that. That he do, like, makes it funny or weird or macabre. Yeah.

And the cats, after she falls through all the awnings and all the cats that surround her that, like, resurrect her. Yeah. So here's the thing with that is that I waiting for that moment. I'm like, wait. Do they resurrect her?

I'm like, I don't think that they do because most of them don't even touch her other than maybe, like, stepping on her. I think they're chewing their fingers. There's the one shot of that one cat doing that. One of them does, like, lick her mouth where Jess was like, did they put cat food in her mouth? They must have probably.

Something. But Or later on when the with the bird, that she put a live bird in her mouth. I I thought the intention is that these cats bring her back to life. I see. That's what I thought it was in my memory.

And what do you think? I was I think she it was it was a brain injury. And she just survived? She just survived. Like, the awnings broke the fall enough so that she survived, but she had a bread a brain injury that changed her personality.

I I'm okay. I'm more okay with that. I'm The cat's licking her back to life. I'm okay with the mysticism or the logical explanation. I think I've been the anything.

Well, yeah. I mean The mysticism. So this is this is one thing that I detached from a little bit is the sort of, like, the take on Catwoman being an insane person as opposed to just a cat burglar, which is what she is in the comic. Right. And I think that that's a very Burton choice.

And that as a Burton choice, I really love it. As a Batman choice, I I'm not in love with it. I Is that what it is? I I would Yeah. I agree, but I also disagree.

Because I think that she is not to the level that, like, a Joker or a Riddler or a Poison Ivy or anyone else in this franchise Sure. Is. Suddenly, she can do all sorts of physical things she couldn't do before. So we're gonna side step that. I am Catwoman.

But Maybe brain injury related. Maybe. But she's not so insane. Sure. Because she even says to what to Penguin later when the ice princess dies, she said she's like, I thought you were just gonna scare her.

Like, she did not intend to be part and parcel of the murder. Right. I I think that she hit that ground. I think she probably died for 20 seconds, 10 seconds, and saw some shit or went through some shit. Maybe there's a brain injury or maybe the OA.

As well. But, like, yeah. But when she shows back up to her apartment, that set that I really like, and just smashes it to bits where she's like, this is not what I am anymore. This is not me. She has to tell me.

Right now. And she also has it's lucky that she has, like, black spray paint, and this, like, black, lucky that she has, like, black spray paint, and this, like, black leather coat that she can, like, sew into. Leather. Woah. Again I think it's great.

I don't I don't hate it. I think just as the cat the cat woman that I really, like I really love the Zoe Kravitz Catwoman. That for me was, like Very good. That's what Catwoman is for me. I will say that Zoe Kravitz's Catwoman is my second favorite Catwoman.

Is this your favorite? Oh, yeah. If they're on similar roads, their their circumstances are different. And she's at at a point specifically says, I'm mad at Batman because I was in my lane and he fucked up my shit. Like, I'm doing my thing.

That was the other thing I didn't quite understand was her vendetta against Batman. Because he threw a fucking napalm at her. He threw her into a thing of kitty litter. Yeah. But she just blew up a department store.

By the way, does he But that's motivational because of Max. Right? Does does also Batman not speak? Does Bruce Wayne not speak until 37 minutes in or did I miss something? And his first word is the word no.

It's like a single line. The first time we see him Keaton as Bruce Wayne in this movie Almost 40 minutes in. Is the is the scene with him and Max Shrek. Right? No.

Because it was Him and Alfred when he's watching the TV. What do you mean as Batman with As Bruce Wayne and actually speaks before that. He's watching the penguin after he saves the baby. Oh. And he's Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Very intently watching this. And, I think he feels like a parallel to, like, yeah, I lost my parents too for a second, but also sees that, like, there's something menacing or off about this guy. And Alfred's arranging the tree and and Michael Keaton's first line is a singular no. That's interesting.

I hadn't clocked that we don't see Bruce Wayne until that far into the movie. Pretty deep in the movie. But it didn't bother me. Like, it doesn't bother me. The first movie is about establishing who he is.

This is not his movie. Exactly. Yeah. It's not a which is why I can kind of get why some producers are like, well, hold on. You made a Batman movie, but this isn't really a Batman movie.

You know what I mean? He's still got top billing, though? No. For sure. Yeah.

He did get top billing. It's not top money. But it's also not really an action movie. You know what I mean? It's like a fantasy adventure, less of an action.

I agree. I I do like their the detective aspect of it, I feel, is a little more they laid on a little thicker. I mean, they laid on kinda thick in the first movie with the chemicals that Joker's doing in the shampoos and stuff. But in this one with, like, jamming the radio frequencies, checking the microfiche thank you, Mike, for the microfiche there. If you listened to our last episode.

Not microfiche. Microfiche. Penguin will take them any shape and size. Doesn't care how hot. But Oh, yeah.

We forgot that we so We're almost there. The the mirror. The detective shit though in this movie, I think is pretty solid. Sure. Overall, he does he it's okay.

I and there's a lot I love about this movie. I really love the production design. You know what? This is Tim Burton's number one son, and you're treating him at number 2. Another line I love, like, that my parents treated me like shit.

The when the penguin says that, it's so good. So we get, the announcement of his mayoral campaign Mhmm. Which is wonderful. Where Walken brings him a fish? Seems I don't care.

Oh, one of my favorite lines that I think of all the time, anytime anybody says it could be worse, I think of this movie. Be gushing blood. Yeah. What? Oh my god.

I think about it all the time. Who is that actor that he bites the nose off? I do not. I recognized him, but not in a, like Yeah. But he's been around forever.

Right? Did anyone recognize Jan Hooks, the other one, who says, like, we found in our polls that that people like fingers. People like fingers. Like when Penguin's like, I'd like to fill her void. Oh, yeah.

Does anyone, by the way it's like they so Max Schreck and and, Oswald walked down the stairs for the nose bite. Yeah. And there's a whole campaign office built. How did the gang not know? I don't know.

Was there no construction? I do really appreciate that the poster is the comic downstairs? Is the comic accurate, penguin. Uh-huh. Like that Oh.

That it that it's Well, and they did that in the marketing materials too. Oh, yeah. Like, he's always in the poster and stuff. He's always wearing the top hat and the monocle even though that's never something he wears in the movie. Here's the monocle once.

And then they put the they put the cigarette holder in and he spits it out. Yeah. So good. Well, I am not Burgess Meredith. Yeah.

I was gonna say I'm surprised we haven't mentioned Burgess Meredith yet. Oh. So he was actually signed to come in into a cameo as the father originally and had fallen ill and could not do it. And great job, Paul Reubens. Yeah.

But That would have been such a great Easter. Yeah. I this is where we get the Catwoman mannequin thing, by the way, where she's, like, gone folk and And I'm obsessed. Pleased. Yes.

And that's one of the reasons why I thought about bringing this film in is because that clip of her doing all of that in one fucking take Yeah. Is awesome. And on the first take Right. Like I mean, her performance is stellar. It's top tier, like, the way she's you boys always confusing your pistols with your privates.

Mhmm. Just so many fucking legend lines from her through the it's the dialogue in this movie is great. The dialogue her the costumes are great. The the Catwoman costume, despite my reservations with the character interpretation, it's amazing. It's iconic.

It looks homemade. Absolutely iconic. It looks pretty fucking legit. Just like to point out that she couldn't have made those stitches with a sewing machine. Oh, really?

Would it have to be by hand? Yeah. Her nails are part of a sewing mesh sewing things. They're like a bobbin. So good.

They're like the thing they use to, like, but they're usually not super sharp. She must have sharpened them. Mhmm. I guess, maybe. I love that, but it's like it's fully like a thing where she's like, I'm self made, I'm patched together.

Like, I do think there's an aspect of, like, being resurrected from the dead and being coming a new person. Like, her destroying this apartment is her being reborn. I don't know where we are in the movie, but It was bull from over the top. We're jumping around. Thinking, I owe No one understands.

I know. Some people do. Should I flip that backward? When Bruce sees Selena again, this is the 3rd time. He sees her on the street when he saves her as Batman, and then he sees her in the office and says, like, oh, I we've met.

Oh, wait. I must have must have killed someone else. Then he sees her on the street. She's looking in the mirror. She's looking in the window, and she says something like, why are you doing this or something like that?

Are we to understand that she's got, like, a dual personality, kinda like doctor Jekyll, mister Hyde going on? Because, like or or is she just able to turn off the Catwoman persona and be Selina? Do you know do you know where the moment I'm talking about? I do. I think there's just inner conflict, which is why I I would argue that she is has not gone to the full chaotic villain that so many of the Batman villains do.

Oh, I don't think she has either. I just think it's more chaotic than the character normally is. I do think there's a huge showing of a duality from, like, the first meeting when she's in Shrek's office, where she's very coy and is, like, I have a thing, whatever. And and when we see her with Shrek again Yeah. Where she's whatever.

And and when we see her with Shrek again Yeah. Where she's just fully fucking out there. Yeah. I mean, that's that's a trope in these types of movies. Like, that's the poison ivy transformation as well.

Yeah. Yes. I was confused if it was something that she could control or if it was, like, there was another person in her that was, like, taking the lead. I don't think it's another person. I think she's just having an introspective moment.

Yeah. I agree with that. That makes sense. Because there's not really much evidence that she's that level of psychotic. One of my favorite moments in terms of all this dialogue stuff is when Penguin, we go back to his mayoral campaign, and he meets this young admirer, and he says, you're the hottest young person a role model could have.

And he's like, it's about interacting with people, touching people, groping people. Mhmm. Like, it's just all of these lines, like, right as Okay. Penguin and and Catwoman are gonna join forces. To take down Batman.

Has Penguin ever gotten gotten late? In this movie? Yeah. Just in general. I think he has.

The dog lady? Something like that. Something. Or somebody in the circus freak cadre. The cadre of circus freaks.

I think they've gotten down. They've got a little bit of an insul. Y. Yeah. He might be a bit of an insul.

You're right. Yeah. Yep. That actually makes a lot of sense as well. And he's been down.

I've never touched a woman, therefore. I'm going to kill all of your children. It's so I look. He's disgusting. He's foul.

Everything him about about him is wrong and awful, and it's very clear. And so for him to have all of these motivations, they make it very clear in the movie when he go when the one clown, when he's, like, saying, we should not kill all of Gotham's children. Isn't that a little? It's not a shoots him and he goes, it's a lot. And it's like, yeah.

This guy's full on fucking evil. Well, and it's a similar thing too because most of the depictions of the penguin in the comics and in other media are he's just, sort of, a businessman with some physical He's a he's a gang leader. He's a gang leader. Yeah. And but with both Penguin and Catwoman here, is that you've taken these characters and turned them up to 11 to fit into the Burton world.

This one does go up to 11. You just don't like it going up to 11. I don't mind the Burton interpretation. I think I'm You do. No.

I don't But Catwoman bothers you more than the penguin does? It does. No. I think I have an issue with both. Okay.

I feel like you should have issues with none. That's why where I feel a little crazy. Where I'm like, all 3 of these people are kind of nuts and we're getting different interpretations of how they're nuts. Sure. I think Ben, people eat in this.

Michael Keaton eats all the time. You should love this movie. He eats the cold soup. He he eats all the time. This is your Alfred Francis is cold.

It's Vichy swans. And then he's like, oh, okay. To be cold. He eats a baby carrot later. He's eating.

He's a man who loves to eat. Yeah. Man after your own heart. I don't mind the interpretation. 11.

It's just not yeah. But I've been in every movie. Yeah. Really? I don't mind the interpretation.

It's just not necessarily my preferred interpretation. No. I understand. And this is where this movie is sort of an exception for me because that's how I feel about both Nicholson's Joker and Tommy Lee Jones' 2 Face. Okay.

Yeah. Is that I feel like they should have been Of course, it's Joker. Because Nicholson's Joker is was way more, like, calculated than Like the Joker. Than the Joker is, and 2 Face is way more crazy and insane. Yeah.

I I remember someone making the argument with Batman Forever that one of the issues is that both Carrie and Tommy Lee Jones are just doing the Joker. Yeah. And and with this, at least, you get Danny DeVito and Michelle Pfeiffer are doing 2 different things. Well and, apparently, Tommy Lee Jones hates Jim Carrey? Yeah.

They hate Jim Carrey. And that comes through? They hate each other. And it's not even that they hate each other. It's that Tommy Lee Jones hated Jim Carrey and his acting Right.

And told him so. I like the Jim Carrey Riddler. I do too. He's fun. Yeah.

He's super fun. I mean He's not the Riddler of the comics. No. He's not the Riddler from the comics. I like the incel version of the Riddler from the Batman.

The Batman. It's like, yeah. It's the Batman it's Batman if David Fincher made it. And it's like, yeah. I mean, there's a little bit of that.

If you wanna simplify, I feel like those are those filmmakers are But they're definitely taking but they're definitely I mean They do take from those things. They're inspired by inspired, like, has inspired. And 7 has definitely inspired Batman. I think Nolan has said that he thinks Heat is the great film or at least the great American film. I'm I'm pretty sure I can confidently say that.

And I appreciate all these adaptations. I'm not Burton weird fuck. Does he is. He's a weird dude. Does he fuck weird?

He probably. Oh, okay. Somebody call Helena. Yeah. I'm sure she would tell us.

Review x2 podcast on Instagram. Get in the DMs. But that's what I I like these interpretations of these villains in the Burton world better than other interpretations in other Batman films in this quadrilogy, if you will. I agree. I I think this might be for The Shining Star With also the exception of Poison Ivy because she's perfect.

I real as much as I love cool potty, I love quoting mister Freeze It's awful. I really want I really want a My condition is let me call to this A really sad, driven, like, grounded character mister Freeze. Sure. Because that's what it should be. In the animated series, you get the perfect interpretation of it in my opinion.

It's There's also a bunch of Batman villains that we haven't gotten them long. Sub Zero is a good movie, actually, the animated one. It's not bad. Other than the Gotham interpretations, but there's a bunch that we have not gotten that are, like, prime for, like I know. Give me condiment king.

We will. It's not give me kill give me Clay face. For real though. Give me man bat. Yes.

Yes. I want man bat. Give me Jared Leto Yeah. As Michael man bat. No.

Joe Leto is not a Michael mad bat? Stop. Not as Stop trying to make Jared Leto a thing. Doctor Michael Madbat Morbius? He showed up in online and made sure.

Mimosas for Michael Monday? For why was he in that movie? Because he has good bone structures. Who knows? Why was Cloonie in the Flash?

Who knows? I have a CG. I got I gotta say, like, the tree the tree relighting is where we're at. And this is, like, such an obvious We were talking about it's an obvious trap, which I like because it's kinda supposed to be approachable. And it's a little funny, and a little farcy, and a little tongue in cheek.

But, like, Batman knows it's a trap that that cat It's a trap. Penguin for sure maybe it's our trap. Penguin and Catwoman have set We're called in on a trip. Before that, Batman Keaton is telling her about his previous relationships while Pfeiffer and he are on a date at his place. And he says that out of it.

He's he's more of a Norman Bates Ted Bundy type. And she says, sickos never scare me. At least they're committed. And then they abandoned each other. And she's like, Alfred, tell me, or tell her a dirty limerick.

They're one so demanding. One just sprung to mind. Decided to love So sweet. Alfred's a mess. Like, they're finding out.

Like, I think this is where they have the inkling of who's who. Very bold. A little? Cocaine. I don't know.

I don't think they have any. It's because it's the mistletoe line that which I That's the ultimate. That whole thing. Yeah. But that's the because they both have a very big reaction to that moment.

I I I think part of the reason any idea. I think part of the reason why this movie gives me the fizz is that it's like the will they, won't they, do they, don't they, or do they know, do they not. The the cat and mouse, the bat and cat of it is Which is so much better than the love triangle of Batman, Bruce Wayne, and doctor Chase Meridian in Batman Forever. That's part of the movie that I just try to erase from my brain. Although as a teenager, I would pretend to be Catwoman, Poison Ivy, and Chase Meridian in my bedroom when I couldn't sleep at night because I just wanted to fuck Batman.

But, like In the bat suit? Batman's very fucking wanna get at least parts of it out of the bat suit. Well well, yeah. I mean And now there's the zipper. There's the zipper now.

So Did you hear the parts? They Yeah. For the For the parts. For the part. But and but also just the all three of them are so campy and iconic in their deliveries, which is what I love about all three characters.

Just Chase Meridian was a really stupid character. Yeah. Yeah. But Her and Val Kilmer are so pretty. They were they were very pretty together.

They're so they're so pretty. I like the idea of turning, by the way, the batmobile into an h bomb where they're like Penguin's idea is always to just go fucking Oh, yeah. All the way. Takes it over. But the remote I I don't hate the control car.

Not only do they do The frame up job is solid. They build a little, like, kid's version of, like, a quarter operated Hang on. What's happening for your time? When that will be When the campaign vans are rocking. Yeah.

And everyone's just walking by just like, oh, whatever. Speaking of ice and large. Yeah. Like, it is fully, like Yeah. Yeah.

It's goining around. Yeah. And he's just running around. Right? I will say, like, he's just, like, running through people.

Mhmm. Yeah. But he doesn't does he I don't think he kills anyone. No. They all get out of the way.

But he he he's made to look like he tried to kill the ice princess. Yes. Their whole idea is turning the city against him. Yeah. But in that first fight scene too, he fully puts a bomb on somebody and throws him down Oh, yeah.

A certain manhole. This Batman over the top. This Batman kills. Bowl from over the top. He kills at least I wanna can we say Just like Machete.

I'm gonna say I don't know if he's Machete. Machete kills. Well, he he's not wrong. Batman doesn't kill people. No.

He does. He does. He does. He kills guns. Machete.

As well as Machete. He blew up a freaking power plant in the system. Yeah. By the way, this has one of the all time dog shit one liners in history where Catwoman and Batman are going after each other and he says, eat floor. But that's in response because she says, I haven't eaten all day.

Yeah. But yeah. I don't care. That's the response sucks. It does suck.

I still love it. It doesn't come out of nowhere. Nowhere. It doesn't come out of nowhere. It's just like they're I will take a 1000 8 floors over almost everything that Arnold Schwarzenegger says.

That's a 2. Do not kill the dinosaurs. The eyes are the eyes. Wow. 10 out of 10.

I'm Charlie. He's Donald. That's a ferret. A 100 out of a 100. Iceberg, Rider Heads.

Great. Victor freezes. Victor French Fries. You're saying that mister Freeze took down the Titanic? Yes.

Mhmm. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

The lines in this movie, like, mistletoe can be deadly if you eat it. But a kiss can be even deadlier if you mean it. If you goddamn it. That's so good. That is I love that line so much.

Yeah. It it might be, like one of my top ten favorite movie quotes of all time. It's so good. It's great. It's very new one.

And particularly because it's how it's used. By the way, this is a fucking Christmas movie everybody. Yes, it is. I was gonna bring that up. Good Lord.

Totally. No. None of us have said that yet. I know. That's true.

That's shocking. Yeah. This is a Christmas movie. Become an annual like this this, Die Hard, Nightmare, and Polar Express. Okay.

Wow. That's that's my watch list. Hasn't made the cut for me yet at this point. No, it hasn't made the cut for me yet at this point. See how we are at the end of the episode.

I'm a diehard gremlins. -Gremlins. Eyes wide shut. -Eye swipe shut. -Eye swipe.

-Mumbest Christmas Carol. -Oh, yeah. Love is about that. Love This Christmas Carol. Also Klaus of reasons.

Klaus is really good. It's the, last year was the first year that I made it part of I have not seen it. Oh, it is excellent. It's very good. Okay.

It is excellent. Yeah. Like, I thought that should have won animated film. Yeah. Really?

It's over the radar for sure. Wow. Ben, give me your quick hits for Christmas. I mean, My The Christmas Carol, I've watched every Christmas Eve for the past Oh, with Maurice Micklewhite? With Maurice Micklewhite.

Okay. Yeah. I know that. Yeah. There's magic in the air this evening.

The soundtrack is amazing. It's fire. We wanted to do a stage version for a long time. Did you know when I was in elementary school, I did Bless you. Bless you.

If you do it, bless you. In elementary school, we did it. Bless us all. We did a Christmas Carol when I and I played Gonzo slash Charles Dickens. Yes.

Excellent role. And my grandma helped me make Well, excuse me, mister Dickens. That was good. Thank you. A blue sort of like yeah.

She made a blue furry costume for me. The Marley's of a dead great kiddo movie. Oh. It's kinda spooky. A little spooky ish.

You lousy minx, I'd have your spade. This is where we're at. Yeah. The plan is like falled up falling apart and Penguin and and Catwoman are like, fuck you. Fuck you.

You're giving me all the signals. Villains falling out with one another? I've never seen the like. And I know. Penguin Penguin Penguin Shocker.

Gets revealed by Batman to Exactly. What is this? I've I really what's his line about the city? Oh. I played the city like a heart from hell.

Yes. They matter. Can occupy All the all you little SOBs. It reminded me of Gavo from the Simpsons. All the kids in Springfield are SOB.

There's a fucking great bat cave in in the movie. Mhmm. There's a crappy green screen in it when he's fixing his car, and Alfred walks up. I think the 89 Batcave, I like a little bit more. It feels more cavernous, more chasm ish.

And I really like Batman Begins Batcave. Yeah. That's my that's my preferred Batman. Batman. That's the tops.

Yeah. That's really good. No. No. Animated series is the tops.

Oh, sure. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Because there's no limit to the imagination.

Have to include Does the animated series have a giant penny and a t rex? Yep. Yes. Because that's very important. Yep.

So, yeah, you need he's preserving history. He He has a giant penny. Yes. Just I'm sure that's from one of his adventures But, I mean of defeating Abraham Lincoln. That ought to hold those SOBs.

Good call. So then Pang kills a monkey. Goes, yeah, apeshit And A lot. Ape shit. Back into the sewer Kills a monkey.

And decides his actual plan is to kill all these babies. Well, that was always his plan. Yeah. Always. That's why that's why he he wanted access to the records so he could find his birth parents who he knew who they were Right.

So that he could write down all of the kids of Gotham. Yes. Which is also a very good shot when Batman pulls up to that library wherever he's at. Beautiful shot. Hall and he's, like, working diligently and he's got his modicle in.

It's a Christmas carol. It feels very That's what I feel at it's most There is a Batman animated series that's Christmas carol y. Oh, I probably have seen it and just don't recall. You have. So through this movie, like, Max Shrek is like the Roger Stone.

Like, Christopher Walken His hair is almost as bad too. The the Roger Stone, and he is gonna pull Penguin's strings, but this was all, like, Penguin's playing him the whole time. He's gonna try to steal Chip. Don't go. Save yourself, Shrek.

But, like, take me. Take don't take him. You want me. You want to dump my eyes in the toxic waste? Yeah.

Yours yours has gotten weird. Yeah. I love it. I'm having a great time. Thanksgiving Chipshreck.

That's what I'm try that's what I'm trying to do. I promise you. And he he successfully convinces Penguin to not take Chipshreck and take him to At this Which you have to do to get him in the sewer for the final sequence. Yeah. Sure.

But You gotta have him done. But this scene, when she comes when we see Michelle Pfeiffer come down the stairs So sexy. And it's not a revealing dress So sexy. It's nothing scintillating. It's just command.

It's just charisma. Like, she's fucking got it, bro. She's got the magic. I love it. And we get the repeat of the line.

Yeah. It's and reveal. The 2 of them having that moment together. Now? Like, it's so good.

It It it's things like in the performance when when Keaton says, why'd you come here? And she says, you first, and he says, to see you, without a hesitation. It's just like that level of confidence. I wish I could say the same. And how much he's revealing himself to her where he's like, I don't care.

Like But that's why Julian Kyle is, like, the great love of Batman's legacy. Oh, absolutely. 100%. Yes. Yep.

Batman is funny. I made it funny. When he sends the note to the statement, it says, I regret to inform you that the children could not make it. Or what's the Bob Kane handwriting. Oh, is it really?

I did not know that. It's beautiful. It's very distinct. Again, the duality. The penguin has his own little batmobile, his little duck mobile that has all its own little Get in the duck.

And he's gonna fucking kill everyone. Are we in the the climax in the, in the I mean, essentially. Yeah. We get the bat boat miniature which fucking rocks the shit when he's in the sewer. It's awesome.

No. No. No. Which he pops out of out of, like, a fiberglass theme park right and smashes the duck and And all the penguins with their rockets on their back are heading towards Gotham City Square. It is the March of the Penguins.

Blow it up. Yeah. You're just jealous. I'm a genuine freak, and you have to wear a mask. You might be right.

And he has, like, telekinetic things on their head. A radar control something. I mean, no green wings. Giving Matt Hatter. But bats over pingies.

Law laws of nature. I don't know what to tell you. Bats over pingies over cats? No. Cats over bats over ping or bats over cats over pingies.

Cats over bats over ping I don't think a cat could take down a king penguin. I wanna make this here. You're entitled to your o I mean, I think cats are murderers and could take kill a lot of things. I think cats could kill bats depending on the size of the bat. Well, and Penguins also kill.

It's true. It is very true. And and Batman who has killed people in this movie, when Selina Kyle is, like, I they reveal themselves to each other, Batman rips off the mask, the eye black is something wrong. Thing that I have a huge problem with is, like, you could just rip that? Yes.

Really Me too. That easily? Ugh. And also where did your skin crawl work? Knock half of a mannequin head off of my rating, it would be that.

Also, where did the eye makeup go? I mean, that's just a Did we not get eye makeup go? It's a drag out of the way? Hold on. That's a Batman trope forever.

Until Pattinson. Oh, was it? Yeah. We we see bat we see the black it's super emo. It is very.

But he get yeah. We get the black around his ass. Whatever. Fuck it. We're taking back Sunday, baby.

I'm feeling like a brand new boy. It's Are you ready? It's good, Charlotte. It's good Charlotte. This is Okay.

I'm gonna wave a yellow card here. We're gonna move back to where we were. Okay. So I think we're at the end of the movie. Right?

So Yeah. So We Should Kill Shrek is fucking wild by the way. Oh, that entire sequence. Kiss me Santa or something. What did she what did she say?

Kiss me under the mistletoe? Yeah. Kiss me under the mistletoe. And then no electrocutes him. Yeah.

Kiss can be deadlier if you mean it, whatever. But it's, like, it's power plants. But also It's so many things tying together. That line where, Bruce Wayne, why are you dressed like Batman? Yeah.

Because he is Batman, you moron. Like, the line delivery is perfection. Yeah. Amazing. Was Batman.

Yeah. That delivery though is something else. Yeah. Like, by both of them 5. Still alive.

And her stumbling and he's just dumbfounded. This is where I go. And she lives. She is a vengeful spirit. She's the fucking crow.

She has left. She is the fucking crow. She is. Yes. The cat and the bird together.

But and by the way, we get to the end of the movie. Keaton's in his car being driven around in the snow. Merry Christmas to the house. This is the silhouette. Play with this.

And it's a cat that he and good It's her cat. God, that cat by the way, that cat is is a black cat. Yeah. Gorgeous. Yeah.

It is And now Batman has a cat. Black with Perrito eyes You know that people don't people don't adopt black cats regularly? Because people are dumb. Yeah. I feel like that would be the first thing I would look for.

They love black cats are lab cats. People want orange tabbies. My favorite shot in the whole movie is the final shot. It's great. When she just comes up into frame and stares at the wall.

I didn't Was she gonna be Burton's 3rd movie? I imagine I'm actually gonna get her own. There were talks about it. Oh. We completed the movie.

We did. We did. We glossed over so much Max Shrek stuff. Max Shrek. It's all kind of the same note.

Yeah. Yeah. It is. Which is fine for a villain like that. When the penguin dies, when we think it's his flaw and comes back up to, like, murder Batman, he grabs the wrong wrong umbrella and he says, oh, I grabbed the cute one.

And falls over and the penguins drag into the sea. I really love I think his performance also is I haven't loved it. Bring up. It's it's Wow. It is I think that that's an Oscar worthy performance.

Me too. So good. Me Like, too. And if you forget that it's Danny DeVito. Through all that shit.

Mike, you've talked ad nauseam about this film. Not for me, I've had a great time. I'm like Mike's like, I'm at a one star now. No. No.

I would feel like Call me magic. Could you imagine? I would feel so terrible. He's like, I've hated this conversation. I'm I never wanna talk about this movie again.

I'm so sorry. He does. I do. Mike does. I'm still at at full chips, I think is where I'm at.

I agree with Mike in terms of the Danny DeVito piece. I love that Keaton kinda plays, a side character almost to this. And Michelle Pfeiffer has given a lot of room to shine and takes the whip and really fucking cracks it and does a great job. I'm very, very close to a 4.5. I'm gonna stick at a 4.

So like a 4.45? 4.44. Triangle gang. Oh. Poor Ben.

He hates doing this show with me. Yeah. His program. I don't hate doing the show. I just don't like you.

Oh, it makes a lot of sense. Oh, no. Daddy and daddy are fighting. I'm just kidding. I'm Max Shrek.

I'm just kidding. I love you. I love you too, buddy. Eat you. Yeah.

I put Eat 4. Eat 4. Eat 4. It's high in fiber. By the way, Keaton's lips at the end where he's like, we're the we're we're the same but cut from different sides or what his lips and that are like, that's the ultimate.

It's that moment that's like, Batman lips. Batman lips. I'm gonna go to 4 penguins. Oh. Excellent.

Way to go. I think that there's a lot of great points made and, like, as we're talking about it, I have to release my it's the fanboy thing. I have to release my qualms and just and how I want to write the character and just let the person who's writing the character do it. Like, just let the story Let go and let God. Yeah.

Or in in your case, you said let go and let Tim Burton same as God. That's what you had said I to me. I sure. Yeah. Maybe when I was high on cracker.

Cooking. But, yeah, I've never We have talked to you about that. It's getting out of hand. Fuck you. I'll never stop.

Four penguins. I I I think there's so much to love about this movie that keeps me from going too much further, but I think 4 is a strong strong place to be. This is where this doesn't become part of the annual, Christmas tradition for me, but almost becomes like Scrooged where it will it it will probably float in and out moving forward. I also feel like I do need to watch the other ones now. I feel like I do need to go Yep.

Having watched all 4 in 1 week and 3 of them in one day. Wow. Wow. You talk about crack okay. Arbenheimer.

When you're unemployed, you have a lot of free time. Yeah. That has to employed, you have a lot of free time. Yeah. That has to get filled somehow.

Well, you could make yourself a skin tight catsuit. I, you know Stand in the poison free. Have you have you been capital? I haven't. I've been poison ivy for a while.

I remember that. Stay in the And I've been Nicole Kidman as Nicole Kidman at AMC Theaters. So is it time to be Catwoman? I told It is on the list. Better than Avatar.

It's from Parks and Rec. Don't worry about him. Unemployed. Great. I think we're at the end of this program.

We are. They're tired of us. Let it play. Let it play, Jamie Henwood. Follow us at reviewxtwopodcast on Instagram, on atrunvmc on Instagram, and on letterbox.

Let it play Matthew Foskett or let it follow at paulxbadly on letterbox. And I'm at, like, now where's, on both. And, we appreciate you listening to us. Thank you, Mike. Thank you.

It'll be very difficult to talk this person up. It can be very difficult. Just ask me why. This was a team effort not cutting it. It's over.

Just ask me. Where's the button? Where's the button? What do I do? Oh, god.

Hi, everyone. This is JJ, the cofounder of Goodpods. If you haven't heard of it yet, Goodpods is like Goodreads or Instagram, but for podcasts. It's new, it's social, it's different, and it's growing really fast. There are more than 2,000,000 podcasts, and we know that it is impossible to figure out what to listen to.

On Goodpods, you follow your friends and podcasters to see what they like. That is the number one way to discover new shows and episodes. You can find Goodpods on the web or download the app. Happy listening.