Unbreakable / Always Practice Safe Spotting (Goes: Stefan van de Graaff)

By title, it's a lie, as "Unbreakable," (2000 d. Shyamalan) has made it to the program via our guest: filmmaker Stefan van de Graaff ('Simmer') and our infamous cohost breaker list. Starring: Bruce Willis, Samuel L. Jackson, and Robin Wright. We discuss the beauty, the quiet, the stillness, what friends do and do not do to each other, and so much more in this entry. We just ask that you prepare by putting on your rain slicker, and not asking too many questions like "how can he drink water?" or "Why do I need a TV in my refrigerator?" You do. 8/13!

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:01

I'm always thinking about RAM. Basketball and all sorts of stuff. Hello, welcome to the Review Review. The podcast that reviews rates and again a film that's typically seven years old or older, two hours and twenty-two minutes or less, and normally not part of a major sequel. Major sequel, major franchise or a sequel. This one breaks that rule to a degree. Was it the intention? No. That's what I want the tack on at the end, and we're we're gonna get there. But this was on my rule breaker list. They say that those rules are unbreakable that we have, but they are not. That's true. Yeah. So I'm your co-host. My name is Paul. There's another voice with me here. Oh, I am one of your co-hosts. My name is Ben. And today we have a fabulous guest who got this from my

Guest Intro

SPEAKER_04 0:52

breaker list, Stefan Vandergraf.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Stefan, hi. Hi. Thanks for having me, guys. I like that there was a little subtlety in that intro. I like that. Little Easter egg.

SPEAKER_04 1:03

Master actor. Master improviser. You got the part, Paul. I'll say something that pisses Ben off. Master ad libber. I don't think it pisses you off, Ben. I know it doesn't.

SPEAKER_02 1:14

I was like, it pissed me off that you said it pissed me off.

SPEAKER_04 1:17

Ben is Ben's Ben is literal. I'm a real goofball. Leaning Towers Pizza. That's what I call my cat's cat tree.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

You're learning very quickly that Paul is the Michelangelo of this teenage media.

SPEAKER_00 1:29

Yeah, that was the name I was looking for.

SPEAKER_04 1:31

Let's go for it. Why not? Stefan is a filmmaker, uh a writer as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:39

Uh Simmer and one of us. Yes. And you had reached out to me on our official email. I think it's at review reviewpod at gmail.com. You think professional. You think very professional. You'll figure it out. There's a link. Stefan figured it out. Stefan's a smart guy. I think our listeners are smart. Well, let's then let's get

What You Been Doing?

SPEAKER_04 2:02

some more emails in.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

And why are they listening to you, Paul?

SPEAKER_04 2:04

This is it.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

This is a question. What if Stefan, I would love to know more about you and your background and uh and and your films.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Sure, yeah. I'll I'll keep it brief. But uh basically I'm like a lot of writer directors, and started when I was like a really young kid and picked up a camcorder at the time and just started making you know videos in the backyard or whatever. Uh did the respectable thing, got a degree. Went I studied advertising because I thought that that was more I suppose, yeah, respectable than film and the in my pursuit of having any type of money for the rest of my life.

SPEAKER_04 2:44

Whoa, and I'm gonna I do this, Steph, and I'm sorry, because you're talking about some stuff that's super fascinating to me. Because I'm gonna talk about one of these filmmakers. There are a lot of really cool filmmakers that come from marketing and advertising and music videos. I I could sit here and say a really big list of names, and I'm gonna do it. Tony Scott, Ridley Scott, David Lynch. The Daniels. Yeah, like Zach Snyder did a uh Michael Jordan promo video, and like this is a person that makes like visually, there's a there's a really cool visual flair to people that have that background in a lot of cases. So give yourself some credit, baby.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

A little credit, yeah, I suppose. There is something. I think that what happens is that all of their creative energy gets pent up constantly doing other people's work that eventually you're just like, I gotta go, it's gotta, I've gotta go and release this, I've gotta start writing and expressing my own ideas. That's kind of what happened with Simmer. Um even though we had like no budget and we had, we were literally just like making it with friends, it was mostly just an attempt at I I literally pulled like all the guys that we were shooting all these commercials, and I just like went to the group of those guys and was like, hey, I want to go and make a feature film, let's do this. Like we had the crew, we knew who the DP was gonna be, we knew who the AC was gonna be, yeah. So we just basically, that group of guys and and gals, we teamed up and went and shot this film together. Uh, but it was really running gun. We had like very, very little budget, and uh but we had a good outcome. Like we got very lucky, we sold it to HBO, and that's awesome. You're just kind of a thing that like when you're in that stage, you're just kind of hoping and praying for, and most of the time it's just luck. And in our case, it certainly was. But I think uh after that it was like, okay, well, now I've been bit by the bug, and what I thought I would enjoy doing of making feature films became sort of the reality that I am now pursuing.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

So I think I want to just say something real quick. Well, a couple things. Neither of you are gonna be able to be brief here. I'm gonna I mean, you know, I want to say that of course there is luck involved, absolutely, but also like you fucking worked for it and you deserved it.

SPEAKER_04 5:04

And so I think it's you're very humble. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 5:07

But I do think sometimes like just as as individuals, we we tend to not want to, you know, we say it's luck when something good like that happens, which is true. There's also always luck involved. Sure. But also like the luck doesn't exist unless you fucking work for it. Absolutely. And then please. No, and then the other thing was like bringing those people together from like obviously you all had such a great flow of um of of working together on these other things that it was like practice. So you got to like throw all that, you know, into something creative, which must have been so refreshing to like that's true.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

That's true. There was a really good sort of shorthand between crew members. Um we were very familiar with each other. We'd worked pretty extensively with each other on other projects. So that's that is actually very true. Um and I think you're right that like I don't remember who said it, but the idea that luck is what is it is when opportunity meets practice or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

And that that felt true. Like I still think that we were lucky, but we were going through the right motions to be lucky. Um you can't get lucky if you've never done, if you never put the work out. Um so there is some just like, yeah, you've got to go do the work, but you're also still constantly crossing your fingers and really hoping that something magic kind of happens.

SPEAKER_04 6:31

Absolutely. Yeah. Um also, I don't know, Stefan, if you were prepared to come in here for what what for this team over here is like a West Coast Sunday morning game. We're still slurping coffee and whatnot. So, like coming into a relaxing evening and uh to talk about movies and go, let's psychoanalyze.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

I I love it. I mean, I would I would do this every night of the week if I could. So I mean tier.

SPEAKER_04 6:55

It's so fun to talk about the process.

SPEAKER_02 6:57

It really is. Yeah. It yeah, absolutely. I mean, uh, I made a short film this last um summer. Um yeah, and it's similar to you that a lot of the crew, our DP was from commercials and industrials. And he basically, you know, this was a short shoestring budget, and he was like, I love this script. I'm gonna bring in like as many people as I can who want to work on it for a very small amount because this is a crew who's so who's so used to doing like Ford commercials, yeah. And that and they finally get to like do something fun. Yeah, and they all we had a huge crew and they and they like they worked for peanuts, but you know, and it was overnight shoots and it was murder on everybody, but they were there for the the love of the game, which is which is always so refreshing to have that. Yeah. Paul Paul has his hand raised.

SPEAKER_04 7:53

I'm to speak next, I'll try to be polite today. It's a weird thing, yeah. It's a really bizarre situation. No, but clearly you guys have like the there's an understanding of like working in short film and working in commercial, like where you're working in this bottle, and as a creative person, there has to be like a level of visual flair or shorthand storytelling and communicating and shots at like everything kind of has to be like shorthand, and you have to make big statements in a short amount of time when you do it well, and then transitioning to features like some of the directors I was talking about, and what you're doing, Stefan, mate making this transition, like it's just like it's fascinating to me. It's just all so fascinating to me.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

Well, I think the thing, yeah, I was just gonna say, I think the thing is that it's it's more feasible than I think people think. Oh I think a lot of times people sort of paint filmmaking in this light. I don't know why directors do this, but it it is true that it's very difficult. Um, but like lifting weights is difficult too. But you can do it. Like it it's it's not the the accessibility of it is is not as far uh out of grasp as I think most people think. And I certainly didn't have any connections in the industry other than that kind of friend group. A lot of people come into the film world um and they or they aspire to come into the film world, but they feel like I can't, I don't have, I don't have the connections.

SPEAKER_05 9:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

Um if you get on a couple of film sets, even as like a PA, you're gonna make a lot of connections really fast. Uh it's a great place to network and meet people. And so I just think that I'm I try to be very encouraging because so often the rhetoric in my experience around making films is like very doom and gloom, very negative, very like it's impossible. And I I kind of I just disagree with that. I think that it's like yes, you can't make the Odyssey right now. Um that is impossible for you.

SPEAKER_04 9:58

You can't really do it on your phone.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

Exactly. Uh, and you can't do it with your friends, and you can't do it in your backyard or your parents' house or whatever. But like, there's a lot of films you can make, uh, and really good ones too. Absolutely. And there's classic examples of that. But um but but anyways, I just I always try to make the plug that it's like if you're thinking of making a short film or a feature film, you can do it 100%. There is like zero doubt in my mind that you can do it if you if you have the true ambition to go and do it.

SPEAKER_02 10:28

I agree with that. I I do too, and I think that's an important an important thing to note is that like every creative thing you make isn't going to be the thing that breaks you into stardom. Right. And I think that we are we we are constantly uh product oriented and thinking like as opposed to thinking like I'm making like I'm lifting this weight to get stronger. I'm making this movie because I want to get better at this. I want I want to I wanna like and we don't we don't think like we we regularly don't think about it that way. We think, oh, I made this one thing, it failed, I must suck at this. It's like no, yeah. Like you lifted that weight, you tried. That was a strong that was that was a hard weight. I I really like that metaphor of lifting weights because I do think that that it is it we can do hard things, but it's yeah, it's gatekeeped gate kept in some ways.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

Yeah, I completely agree. It drives me nuts. It honestly, like, I I don't know why our industry is this way. It's I think it's kind of pathetic. I think that it's mostly rooted in fear.

SPEAKER_05 11:27

Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

Uh it's like, oh, well, if somebody else is gonna make that film, then I can't. And so they they they view it in zero-sum terms, and I just I don't, I don't um and I would even say interestingly, like we did sell the film to HBO, which I think a lot of first-time filmmakers would be really ecstatic about. And there's no doubt that we were, and we're kind of in a little bit of disbelief. But I would also want to dispel the myth, uh, because there's the there's I think there's kind of two myths. There's the one that it's extremely hard, and there's the second that if you even if you uh or if you are successful, that everything else from there is Gucci. And that's just not true. Like I the I did sell the first film to HBO, and it had some impact on my ability to make the second film, uh, but not nearly as much as people think. And this is like a very commonly known it feels like an industry secret, but I have a lot of friends, directors and writers who have made huge projects and have been very, very well received in varying degrees of financial success, uh festival success. They're still it's clawing for the next thing all the time.

SPEAKER_05 12:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

Um so so you have to change the mindset from the jump. And it's like, if you have success, great, but that's not gonna change your life. You have to get into it because you just you for the love of a game. Like I'm I I want to make films, that's what I want to do. And if it's successful or not, I'm I'm lifting the weights, like I'm getting the reps in. Yeah. Um, and if you go into it just to get reps, you're gonna be very, very happy when on the other side of it.

SPEAKER_04 13:00

Yeah. If you put in your 10,000 hours, I believe, is the the the number of hours, like you're gonna become an expert. Like it's not like buying a bottle of water, like we're in such a weird instant gratification bubble, at least I am to a degree, uh, where a lot of people in my orbit to a degree believe I do this thing and that'll be it. And to y'all's point, no, like you gotta do it for the love of the game. You gotta really be passionate about this. You can't just be like, here I am, and that's it.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

Right. I mean, uh we can cut this maybe. I don't know. Uh I had a friend who last uh last Oscars, their short was nominated for Best Short. Oh wow, yeah, yeah. Wow and I worked with uh him and his brother, their short and uh it had won a bunch of festivals it won at Austin uh South by and it like it was it was killing it and those are great festivals, yeah. It was it was and so they were they felt like they were a favorite for the Oscar and they lost. And um, you know that but they were there, they were at the at the big show, and they still right now they currently can't get their feature financed. Yeah, and so it's like pilot.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

I have similar similar war stories with friends, and it's just it it's we have been sold a bit of a lie, I think, for a lot of filmmakers, is you get into this industry based off of a premise that may have been true 20 years ago. Yes. But if you if you win if you win South by and you get on the, you know, you get an Oscar NOM, uh, you're set.

SPEAKER_04 14:40

You're Wes Anderson, yeah. You're Wes Anderson.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

Yeah, you're Wes Anderson, you're gonna be fine. Um and the reality is you are gonna be fine, but it's not for the reasons that it used to be where, okay, well, now the industry is gonna come and pick you up and they're gonna pave you, pave the road and gold for you. Um that will happen to a handful of people in a generation.

SPEAKER_05 14:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

You're bet it it's the lottery. Like that is not gonna be it's not gonna be you. Just assume it's not gonna be you.

SPEAKER_04 15:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:07

I'm gonna cut this. Can we say a name that the foundation is being paved for? A director or writer, if you if no, if you don't want to participate, you don't have to. But I I'll start. It's like, and I I like him and I I really wish him well, but there's a level of like, I feel like Glenn Powell is being pushed exceptionally hard. And like, and and that's fine. Like, it's not something I dislike. I just feel like he's being pushed so hard. Like it's they they the system, the it, the machine is is putting a lot behind this person.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

Yeah, and and uh in a similar maybe it's actually a different way. Like you look at somebody like Sean Baker, who didn't get a lick of help for however many films deep he was. I think he was five or six films deep before he got the Oscar. And and then all of a sudden, when he's gone and made all these films with his own money for dirt cheap casting street actors, uh then all of a sudden, on a phone, yes. And then all of a sudden, now the industry accepts him and says, Look at what we've done. The industry, we've we've yeah, you know, we've it's almost as if it's a fever team or something. Yeah. It's like you weren't there. You guys Yeah, yeah. You were the dad that abandoned your kid until he was rich, and then he'd come back and say, Oh, I've missed you, son. No, it's so good that you're you know, it's just I love that you said Sean Bates.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

But I do feel that you said that. I I I mean, I think we should move on, but I do. Yeah, we're commiserating quite a bit. I do I do feel like though that the 90s sort of started that where you uh I mean, maybe not, maybe maybe I'm just very 90-centric, but but so many

What Are You Watching?

SPEAKER_02 16:49

so many indie filmmakers, right, who came from making their own shit were then like pulled into the studio system and then like pushed into these IP, IP, I hate that word uh projects, um and and milked for all that everything that they absolutely can give them. You know, it's it happened to Fincher, it happened to Nolan, it happened, it it it absolutely happened to, you know.

SPEAKER_04 17:13

Yeah. I'm going to push my beliefs, co-host Paul's beliefs. This is why Paramount and WE cannot merge. I personally feel that the film industry is on the edge of another like indie renaissance. And I, as a film lover, need that so badly. And on the note of that, Stefan, I'm going to watch Simmer uh sooner than later. I haven't watched it yet, but uh, listener, right now, it is available on Prime Video, Hoopla, Fandango for free. Is it available anywhere else that you can off the top?

SPEAKER_00 17:51

Those are the ones uh yeah, Prime Video in the States is where it's free right now. Um, so that's the one that I'd probably push people toward. Um, but if you want to pay for it, you can obviously go and find it wherever you pay for things.

SPEAKER_04 18:03

Excellent. Yeah. Uh when when Chef finds out his family will be deported if he doesn't pay government imposed fees, he turns to his boss who offers him an opportunity as a black market driver to earn money. That is the log line for simmering. And you're uh in the midst of one of us now? Where are you? Are you in Premier? Are you in post? Where are you at?

SPEAKER_00 18:27

We are currently in the in sort of the festival tour. So we premiered at the Manchester Film Festival this year and uh have done a handful of other European film festivals and are hoping to do our US premiere uh this fall. And then uh hopefully end of the year, beginning of next year, we will then be on streaming and can announce that more or you know, announce it more publicly and let people see it more publicly. But right now, uh just in the festival tour.

SPEAKER_04 18:54

And and what's uh kind of like the log line or what's what's the the premise of one of us?

SPEAKER_00 19:00

Yeah, so that one is a film about a family that attends a funeral, and the youngest of this family, uh, he's like a young adult, is warned that people in the family are gonna start dying one by one uh until he finds the stranger in the midst of their family. So somebody isn't who they say they are, and it's his job to find out uh who's there. And it's very allegorical and uh very cool uh and things like that. But I think it's a fun little, fun little piece. Chamber film.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

I l I love a chamber film. Very exciting.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

And a soccer firm.

SPEAKER_04 19:40

Yeah. Well, now that we've talked about what we've been doing, thank you, Stefan, for commiserating with us.

SPEAKER_02 19:46

Yeah, appreciate it. Appreciate it greatly. Love the conversation.

SPEAKER_04 19:49

Yeah, absolutely. Uh from here though, I'd also like to know what you've been watching.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Oh, yeah. What haven't I been? Honestly, here's a here's a here's a bit of a uh it's a bit of a guilty pleasure. Um I am re-watching Sopranos right now.

SPEAKER_04 20:07

I just finished a Sopranos rewatch, brother. No, that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

Okay, well we're on the same wavelength. It had been long enough that I was feeling like, okay, I I think it's uh I think it's time to go and go and rewatch it.

SPEAKER_04 20:23

Is it so different now? Or no? I mean, it was such a different experience for me than when like it was quote unquote on.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

I'm trying to think. It is definitely different on second viewing. I I I think I almost like it more. Oh, thank you. I guess that there's some of the like, oh, I don't know what's gonna happen that you know that isn't there anymore. But now it's just like the depth, the writing, it's just brilliant. It it really is, I think, arguably the greatest television show ever made. And so I've really, really been enjoying that.

SPEAKER_04 20:55

Have you seen Sopranos, Ben? Hall of Shame, Main? Uh Shame. I don't know, it's okay. Uh but I yeah, I do we we don't shame, you know that. No, I shouldn't be able to do that. We don't shame people for not saying things. There's too much.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

I flog myself.

SPEAKER_02 21:08

Okay, go full Paul Bentney when I'm alone. Um no, but I do think because I I was having this conversation with someone. Would you call Sopranos the first premier television, like premiere television series? How deep do we go here?

SPEAKER_00 21:28

I mean it it may be. It was certainly the first one that like put it on my roadmap as being kind of caliber.

SPEAKER_04 21:36

I watched a little bit of Oz, which was pre-Sopranos and like could not really. I mean, I was I mean I am only but six years old now, so I couldn't I couldn't handle it.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

I mean I think if you're talking network television, I would probably say Twin Peaks. Oh yeah. Sure. Yeah. I think for like in terms of our era of HBO and streaming and stuff. Yeah, perceived right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

I think I think you might be right. What are you guys watching?

SPEAKER_02 22:05

Oh, thank you so much for asking us.

SPEAKER_04 22:07

Sopranos, baby. Yeah. I mean, you should watch the next thing that you talk about when we do this, I hope, is the Sopranos.

SPEAKER_02 22:14

You know, I I'll be honest, I've I've started it. It's so deep. I've started it. It's yeah, I've started it a couple times. Um it's not that it's not interesting to me. I just it it's daunting.

SPEAKER_04 22:25

It okay. Aside it being daunting and and not really necessarily being about the mob or mob life uh when you go into the deeper layers, Stefan agrees, luckily. Oh it is funny, it is very super funny, very funny.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

Yeah, I'm sure it is, and James Gandalfini is a phenomenal character. RIP dude, he's incredible. Um I will I I will give it another shot. It's definitely like again, it's one of those things where I like I put it on a shelf where I'm like, I'm gonna do that someday.

SPEAKER_04 22:55

Yeah, Stefan, how many episodes did you watch at a time? Did you like totally binge?

SPEAKER_00 23:00

Because Ben, I would say three at a time is I mean, I was gonna say I was probably on like a two to three at a time kind of clip. Um, which yeah, it makes it a little bit less it's still it's a lot of seasons, and each episode is long. Uh yeah, it's I'm not one of those people that usually will say, Oh, like you just gotta give it so much time because it becomes like there's enough stuff in the world to watch that like if something's not speeping to you, fine. Like, who am I to say that you know you have to watch it? Like somebody, I I can't remember what show. I think it was maybe Parks and Rack, but that was the one that was like every time somebody would tell me about it, they're like, you just gotta watch through the first two seasons and then it gets good. Yeah, it's a huge commitment. So I would say give it a few episodes. If it hasn't hooked you after three or four, then um I did that with Game of Thrones, I gave up.

SPEAKER_03 23:55

And then I'm just we're trying to offer protection of your time here.

SPEAKER_04 23:59

We just need a little bit because uh my hand is clammy, that's uncomfortable for everybody. Uh I felt it through my shirt. Sorry. I'm not cutting that. Am I?

SPEAKER_03 24:11

But we're just trying to protect your time. That's the thing. Watch the Sopranos. What are you watching now?

SPEAKER_02 24:17

Maron, Maron. I just wanted, well, I'm I watch okay. I just the last two movies I saw in the movie theater, I think, are fascinating. I know why you're using that word. Speaking to what we're um talking about, which uh I I saw obsession in the theater, and I saw the Odyssey in the theater. And uh like these are on opposite spectrums of filmmakers and budget, right? Like, new filmmaker, Mr. Rain Slicker, yeah. Sure. Um and I love them both for different reasons. Uh and I I just it feels so wonderful as a as a fan of film to go to the like to go to the movie theater and see these movies um that Chris Nolan loved Obsession, right? He he said now that it's inspired him to make a horror. Oh, I hope that's true. And I hope like there is a level of budget to it that is small. Well, and then but but then you watched the Odyssey and it's like this is an art house movie that is like made obviously made into a blockbuster, like you know, and yeah, this movie wouldn't be made probably by anyone else today because no other studio is gonna accept this. But when you're Chris Nolan and you've gone through the slog of I made my Batman movies, yeah, I made my I'm a proven commodity. I made like I made these thrillers, and now I'm gonna and he even said like he didn't get to make this movie ex but but Oppenheimer allowed for it because it was so well received. And I and and I just like it's not a perfect movie, you know, like it's definitely got flaws, and I think that uh I think all of Nolan movies are like that, but it but it but it allows for the conversation and it allows for interpretation. And as someone who really loves adaptation, like adapting things specifically for different mediums, and the movie and the movie adaptation and the movie, brilliant movie and the script. I just thought his interpretation and adaptation of this story that we all know. Sure. Um, and the themes that he chose to highlight were just really, really engaging and like and surprising at times. And I think that's a really hard thing to do when you know what this is about.

SPEAKER_04 26:43

Well, and as you're saying, like kind of the the thing where it's like we all know this, like the Cohen brothers claimed to have been like, we never read it, like we just did this because like we know the story well enough, like it's so resonant, like through culture or whatever. And I my understanding is Nolan took the newer, like more modernized adaptation and with that.

SPEAKER_02 27:05

Yeah, I that's my understanding too. And but it it also like you watch it and you're like, oh, similar to when I watched Del Toro's Frankenstein, where I'm just like, oh, this is actually the story you've always wanted to tell, if that makes sense. Like it's anything it's there's core pieces that's in everything else. Yeah, I feel like there's pieces of it in everything else that he's done. Really core to the book and the story, and yeah, in terms of like quest for going home, the loss of memory, like uh, you know, this idea of hero, this idea of of of living up to that uh idea of being a hero.

SPEAKER_04 27:44

And uh listen to our monster squad episode, everybody, for more Frankenstein hijinks.

SPEAKER_02 27:49

Uh Frankenstein's monsters hijinks. Again, I don't think it's a perfect movie. I think it might be his best movie. That doesn't mean it's my favorite of his movies. Sure, sure. Like I two different.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

Are you talking about Frankenstein or you're talking about Odyssey?

SPEAKER_02 28:00

I'm sorry, I was talking about Odyssey.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:03

Uh I think um I I just think that he he's just he's just hitting at a level right now, which is really impressive to me. And he takes risks. And like the the the Cyclops sequence alone is worth the price of admission. Oh wow, okay. In my and you went to like 70 millimeter full-on, right?

SPEAKER_04 28:23

70 millimeter IMAX, maybe. IMAX, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:26

Fucking around.

SPEAKER_04 28:26

The full-on IMAX, like IMAX Imax.

SPEAKER_02 28:29

I was thinking about just watching it on my Fitbit.

SPEAKER_04 28:32

Yeah. Oh, I have it on my Zoom. I just well, I had to download it onto three different Zooms, but it's gonna be amazing.

SPEAKER_00 28:39

Oh yeah, that's a really good idea.

SPEAKER_04 28:41

I really thank you, Stefan.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

I'm really looking forward to your smart refrigerator watch. That's always good.

SPEAKER_04 28:47

Watch it with the Samsung fridge.

SPEAKER_00 28:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:49

This episode is brought to you by the TV in your fridge. Shut up and watch it.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

Just listening to you right now.

SPEAKER_02 28:56

That's what boomer dads like to watch movies on their fridge.

SPEAKER_00 28:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:00

Because they can just stand there and this is gonna correlate into what I've been watching.

SPEAKER_04 29:04

Yeah, the boomer eximerant hands on their hips, just yeah. What are you watching? This goes so perfectly into what I've been watching, but you also liked Obsession. Oh, I loved Obsession. Yeah, me too. I really liked it a lot. Stefan, have you had a chance to see Obsession? Are you playing horror person?

SPEAKER_00 29:18

I did see the Odyssey. I am a horror person, but I have not seen Obsession yet.

SPEAKER_04 29:23

Okay. I'm excited to see the Odyssey at some point. I really liked Obsession a lot, like kind of loved it. And in terms of Nolan, like there's always such great storytelling. There's always so many great moments. It's like I love the prestige. I can't wait to rewatch that soon. But it's like I also haven't seen Interstellar because I've put it on, I put the pussy on a pedestal, like big time.

SPEAKER_02 29:45

In terms of prestige is being re-released in IMAX 70mm in January for the 20th anniversary. That's how I was.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

Really? Yeah. Oh, that's sick.

SPEAKER_02 29:54

I saw it before I was even was that even me? I love that movie.

SPEAKER_04 29:59

I think I think Yeah, I remember, dude, such an experience.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

I just I I think like that movie is uh David Bowie is Nikola Tesla, is just so good. Another art with that casting. It's just it's so fantastic.

SPEAKER_04 30:12

The the list of the things that David Bowie was potentially gonna be casting or was going to work on is pretty nuts. I this is a list I will skip listener, but the list is pretty nuts. And he's so great in Twin Peaks, dude. He's so great in so many things. Speaking of pretty nuts, David Bowie and the Labyrinth.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

Yeah. The Labyrinth, just the whole game. Pretty nuts.

SPEAKER_04 30:36

Pretty nuts. And I'm gonna transition to what I've been watching. Yeah. Uh I've been paying close attention to NBA free agency. It is absolutely fascinating, it is amazing. I cannot wait for this NBA season. Uh, sad for me, listener, I am a Portland Trailblazers fan, and uh it's gonna be a real interesting couple years. And uh parlay into I started watching the new season of Quarterback on Netflix. I watched that. And Baker Mayfield choosing to watch the TV in his kitchen in the wall rather than the enormous surround sound like setup he has in his living room, like 20 or something. Right? He's sitting, he's sitting, well, he I was like, this is so relatable. Like, I just need to walk away with my phone.

SPEAKER_02 31:22

And what's funny is like it pans over and shows like his living room's full of people, right? And they're all watching the game, but he's in the kitchen watching it on his fridge, basically.

SPEAKER_04 31:31

Yeah, and by the way, I have such a newfound respect for Joe Flacco. Like, what an insanely grounded person, at least it seems like, in in the show. Yeah. If that's not him, they've really structured it well. Like almost like you'd structure a great bat on a parlay that's huge. He's a he's he's legit like six, six and a half or whatever. Yeah, he's a lordy size. Yeah, he's a huge dude. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, he's about to be. I was gonna say he looks like he's like I mean, he looks a little older than me. He looks like he's like, you know, 30.

SPEAKER_02 32:04

Rogers is also like 43, and he looks like he's almost 60.

SPEAKER_04 32:07

I mean, these guys have taken an absolutely internally and externally, voluntarily and involuntarily, mostly voluntarily. They put in their 10,000 hours plus.

SPEAKER_02 32:17

I I loved Flacco too in that season he's really great. Uh uh Baker

"UNBREAKABLE" Facts

SPEAKER_02 32:23

Mayfield's an interesting character.

SPEAKER_04 32:24

Cam Ward, what a fucking athlete. And like, love the attitude and like, you know, I I really have you watched this at all, Stefan? Is this a available where you're at?

SPEAKER_00 32:34

I actually don't know. They definitely haven't advertised it over here. That's what I'll say.

SPEAKER_04 32:39

Okay. Jaden Daniels was interesting because he just sat on his couch that whole season. That poor dude feels so bad. Like, I'm not even gonna say what I'm thinking. I don't think it's even good to verbalize it. It was against us where we took him out. And dude, I again as far as we're gonna go, by the way. This rule is unbreakable. That you broke the rule. That rule was unbreakable, and he broke it.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

Oh no.

SPEAKER_04 33:01

I'm gonna parlay this into before I went into this Bruce Willis experience, I was like, well, last Boy Scouts available through my library. Better watch that. This is Bruce Willis 100% in the Bruce Willis bag. Getting to do the insane sardonic jokes. They're over a hundred fucks. It's got all this insanely predictive and prescient shit about like betting and you know what people's motivations are and status, and like I don't think anybody on that set said no. It's so fucking visually dynamic. Tony Scott, R.I.P. directs the shit out of that fucking movie, and it is absolutely bananas, but there is a level of commitment that totally works, and also the chemistry between Damon Wayans and Bruce Willis, even the overly corny, like overwritten, touching black influenced, like dramatic scenes, or stop trying to be funny, please. It never ceases to entertain me. I just have the best time, and I like and I know it's not necessarily palatable for everybody, and I don't want to see it in every movie, but I like being able to turn on like a Last Boy Scout or um a Hudson Hawk or some of these things that Bruce Willis has done that is like Bruce Willis in his like bag where he's like Bruno busting the harmonica via film. I I enjoy the shit out of it.

SPEAKER_02 34:30

Uh listen to our diehard and versus diehard with a vengeance episode.

SPEAKER_04 34:35

This hasn't been decided. Don't listen to whatever Ben says. Do you have a preference? Have you seen both of these, Stefan?

SPEAKER_00 34:40

I've seen both of them. Uh I don't know. I I'd be curious. I'm I'm trying to like psychoanalyze you guys to see which one would pick which one, but I don't know if I could do it yet. I I'm not I I'm a sucker for the OG. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_04 34:53

Oh, that's no, that's good. Oh, yeah. Like James Cameron, I guess, his favorite action movie, like very quick answers on diehard. And it's like you can't take that away from anybody.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

We do it's it's pretty it's pretty cut up.

SPEAKER_04 35:05

We've only done two debate debates, is that right? I think only two, because we we find ourselves like enjoying, if not liking or thinking something is great, like a lot of similar stuff. We're working on a carpenter's type of something that we'll be doing at some point, listener. We haven't done the carpenters, we haven't done any carpenters, we haven't done any craven, we haven't done any Kubrick, you know, the three C's. Oh no, wait, Chrome.

SPEAKER_00 35:30

I remember your three C's.

SPEAKER_04 35:31

Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

Because Kubrick has a C. I remember that.

SPEAKER_04 35:34

There's a C in there somewhere. Yeah, you'll find it if you look closer. Hey, yeah, we've talked about what we've been doing. Yeah, we've talked about what we've been watching.

SPEAKER_05 35:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:43

If we're ready, Stefan, we're now going to break into the movie. We're gonna uh it's a lie. It it is breakable. Unbreakable.

SPEAKER_02 35:53

Uh yes. We're gonna talk about unbreakable. It's a touchstone blinding edge, Barry Mendel Pictures. It's rated PG 13. It is an hour and 46 minutes. Uh it's a suspense comic book fantasy. Um like but its own comic book world or in the year of what is it, 2000 that it came out? In the yeah it says yeah, when was Blade? I don't know. I because this this like predates the boom.

SPEAKER_04 36:17

It does. I I feel like it's put it has a lot of influence that lives within the boom.

SPEAKER_02 36:23

The the superhero boom, yeah. We had X-Men this year. Um it was 2000, yeah, it's 2000. Um the budget was 75 million, which is estimated. Uh adjusted, that's 145 million. Opening weekend was November 22nd, 2000. There's three twos. Is that something?

SPEAKER_04 36:41

1122. 1122.

SPEAKER_02 36:43

It's around it's a round of Thanksgiving release.

SPEAKER_04 36:46

Is that something?

SPEAKER_02 36:47

It's a round of Thanksgiving release, which is crazy for like a sophomore movie.

SPEAKER_04 36:52

I mean, it feels like an Oscar and or box office push. Like it's like you you're gonna get one or the other. Like the studio must have a level of confidence.

SPEAKER_02 37:00

Uh it made 30 in its opening, 30.3 million dead in the water. Adjusted 58.6, Final Ghost in America. 95. It's over. Pull it out of the 33.7. What? That's a lot of money. It would go straight to streaming after a weekend opening weekend now. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 37:21

Yeah, exactly. Dump it.

SPEAKER_02 37:23

Final Gross.

SPEAKER_00 37:24

Never talked about it ever again.

SPEAKER_02 37:25

Exactly. Uh Final Gross Worldwide, 248 million adjusted. That's 479.6. That's a crazy amount of money. And if you include glass and split split.

SPEAKER_00 37:38

Split.

SPEAKER_02 37:39

Other releases this weekend, 102 Dalmatians and Quills. Is that a what is Quills? Is that Jeffrey Rush? I remember that.

SPEAKER_04 37:50

I think it is Jeffrey Rush. Yeah, Jeffrey Rush. Uh and guess which one of those two movies I would actually prefer not to do? Where maybe I'd say, you know what, the rules are not breakable. We can't do this movie.

SPEAKER_02 38:02

It'd be 102 Dalmatians. 102 Dalmatians. Can't do that sequel. Can't help you. Uh weekend top five, Dr. Seuss's How the Grinch Stole Christmas, which is a making that sequel of Carrie's Coming Back. I walked out of that movie. Carrie's coming back to do that movie.

SPEAKER_04 38:18

It's wild to me. I know a lot of people love that movie. I should retry it. They Stefan, this is part of the reason we're here. Like, this movie would be dumped and no one would ever talk about it. Like, please please bring the stuff that you feel nobody would talk about. And a lot of people to me like talk about Doctor, and I'm hesitant to like revisit it. Like, I can't talk about it. Carrie, though, coming back.

SPEAKER_02 38:37

It is fascinating. I feel like the the like Jim Carrey documentary, you've seen that? Oh, yeah. No. It's a great documentary, but he he talks about how like it for him he went from like Truman Show to Man on the Moon, where he went a little too hard into uh playing the character of Andy Kaufman, and Andy Kaufman playing the character of Tony someone.

SPEAKER_04 39:05

Yeah, and Andy Kaufman at times. And it's like you know, Andy Kaufman is playing two characters outside of himself.

SPEAKER_02 39:10

So he he and he also he went a little crazy, and then doing the Grinch is sort of like the the where he hit his like peak because he was in makeup for 18 hours. I wish him and William Friedkin would have worked together. That would have been awesome. But he's coming back, and I'm guessing he won't be in makeup for 18 hours anymore. Nope. Dots don't take super long. Yeah. He'll be like iron. It'll like it'll look like when they started doing the like uh it's like the end of the Marvel like cool-looking suits is when everything became the micro tech or whatever, and they could just press a button and you're like, cool, you're wearing a mocap suit.

SPEAKER_00 39:49

Yeah, lost all of its cool, coolness.

SPEAKER_04 39:52

Yeah. I liked a clump of that for certain. Yeah. There are pieces of that that I like, but then it goes too hard in the paint.

SPEAKER_02 39:58

Yeah. Uh speaking of too hard in the paint, Rugrats in Paris was a weekend top five. And Charlie's Angels.

SPEAKER_04 40:05

Which doesn't go too hard in the paint and is a movie that has some big choices. Amazing Sam Rockwell performance, amazing Cameron Diaz. Yeah. Good soundtrack movie.

SPEAKER_02 40:15

Yeah, absolutely. Uh other films from 2000. The Cell, Men of Honor, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, The Gift, Traffic Bamboozled. Listen to our bamboozled episode. Right. Best in show. Listen to our best in show episode.

SPEAKER_04 40:28

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 40:29

Uh, letterbox average for this movie is 3.7. You can follow me on Letterboxd. I'm at Run BMC. I also have a letterbox.

SPEAKER_04 40:37

It is at Paul Axbadly. Stefan, are you a letterbox person?

SPEAKER_00 40:42

Not really. I have one, but I don't I don't use it religiously. I'm still trying to learn the I'm still trying to make a habit of it.

SPEAKER_04 40:49

It's weird to drive. Like the interface is weird to like for me anyway.

SPEAKER_00 40:55

Yeah, they need to they need to bring in some UX designers and sold, right?

SPEAKER_04 41:00

And it's getting sold. Yeah. Yeah. Sony. Is that right? Yeah, dude, Sony. Don't eliminate physical media and then buy movie theaters. Like we're not gonna get into that. Paul, shut up.

SPEAKER_02 41:14

Uh well, Ebert and Roper gave this two thumbs up. Uh Rotten Tomatoes at 71% and 77 popcorn meter. Pretty positive. Metacritic 62, 7.6 user. Uh, major awards wins and nominations. It's got a Saturn nomination for best film. That's a big deal in genre.

SPEAKER_04 41:33

It is. Saturn awards are a big deal.

SPEAKER_02 41:35

And a Bram Bram Stoker horror writing nomine. Horror, interesting.

SPEAKER_04 41:38

I would not put this in that category, but I think that it's weird how much I feel like sci-fi and or fantasy is like considered horror or like that it delves into like that the that's a Venn diagram.

SPEAKER_00 41:51

Yeah, yeah, that does seem to be true. And there are like moments of horror in this, but it's not a horror.

SPEAKER_02 41:58

No. What's interesting too, because his primary genre is horror. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of him, speaking of horror.

SPEAKER_04 42:11

It's Paul, uh speaking of horror, birthday buddy, August 6th, M. Knight Shyamalan, who was the director of Trap, Old, and Glass. M. Knight Shyamalan was also the writer of this film, as well as The Happening, Split, and Devil. The music was by James Newton Howard, Signs, The Fugitive, Pain Hustlers, Cinematography was Eduardo Serra, R.I.P. Blood Diamond, Defiance. What dreams may come. You can't listen to that episode, listener, because I don't want anyone similar to Spielberg with Mac in me, where it's like me giving this any breath only gives it more exposure, and that's no good. That was our first episode, Seven.

SPEAKER_02 42:55

Our first episode was What Dreams May Come.

SPEAKER_00 42:58

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 43:01

I do, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:02

There's a lot to talk

FUN Facts

SPEAKER_04 43:03

about, right? Producers of this film. Uh M. Knight Shyamalan, Lady in the Water, Barry Mendel, the King of Staten Island, Roger Burnbaum, 27 Dresses, Gary Barber, The Lookout, Sam Mercer, Congo. A lot of folks. A lot of producers there. Bruce Willis was David. David Dunn. David Dunn has got that alliterative, alliterative. Yeah. Rain slipper man. Death becomes her. Looper, 12 monkeys, and the fifth element. Listen to our fifth element, but you know, don't hold your breath. Listen, listen as soon as you can. Samuel Jackson in I'm gonna say this like a fucking the first 10 years of Samuel L. Jackson being known in like the zeitgeist of the culture. Man, there is there there's so many fucking great performances in there. And this is I I love this performance. Oh, he's great.

SPEAKER_05 43:54

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_04 43:55

Oh, good. Okay. Uh he played Elijah, aka Mr. Glass. Django. Unchained 1408, Formula 51, aka the 51st state. Robin Wright was Audrey. Moneybag, the crossing guard, the Princess Bride. Spencer treat Clark was Joseph Gladiator.

SPEAKER_02 44:11

The second that kid came on screen this time, I was just like, that's a fucking gladiator kid.

SPEAKER_00 44:16

Yeah. He just so recognizable. That kid had a couple good years.

SPEAKER_04 44:21

Yeah. This is how much I remember Gladiator 2. Was he in that? No.

SPEAKER_02 44:26

Or no, he wasn't. So his character is Paul Mescal.

SPEAKER_04 44:30

Is Paul Mescal. Okay. Got this shows where it's again like Denzel Washington ate on that one. Like I mostly just remember that performance where I'm like, yeah, that's all you need to remember. Doing some shit. This is great. It's a treat. Clark was also in Salem's Lot from 2024. Charlene Woodward was Elijah's mother, Eye for an Eye, One Good Cop, and The Meteor Man, a movie that came out on August 6th. Your birthday. M. Night Shamalan's birthday. Moses Olsen's birthday. Listen to our perfect weapon episode with Moses Moses. Moses Olsen. Wow. Iman Walker was Dr. Matheson, Lord of War, Tears of the Sun, and Blood and Bone.

SPEAKER_02 45:12

For his small amount of time great on screen, he gives a phenomenal performance. Like that discovery of the baby is that's not easy to do as an actor. And he I think he just gives a great performance there.

SPEAKER_04 45:27

I feel that that camera shot and the amount of time that takes, that scene, and like the realization and him giving the information, the duration of time it takes is a long time. And he doesn't have a ton of dialogue, and he's so fucking commanding to me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

Yeah. I think he's great. Really brilliant scene.

SPEAKER_02 45:49

There's so much patient filmmaking in this. I agree with that.

SPEAKER_04 45:53

It's beautifully, beautifully shot. I think that's almost inarguable. I understand that is technically subjective, but we'll see how you feel, Stefan, and we'll we'll like Stefan probably likes it. We'll see. So Leslie Stephenson was Kelly, As Good as It Gets, Good Times and Noodle Salad. Slubber from 97 and The Hunted, directed by William Friedkin from 2003. Boston Christopher was clerk. We I gotta shorten this. The Frozen Ground Otis Scorpion King 3. Battle for a death. Don't say the clerk. Stefan, I think we want to jump to you about like uh some fun facts that have been, you know, these have been researched to be verifiable-ish.

SPEAKER_00 46:37

Ish.

SPEAKER_04 46:38

Yeah. You're gonna you're gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 46:41

You're gonna give me all the stats that may or may not be true. That way. If anybody's got a bone to pick, you can't do that.

SPEAKER_04 46:49

Stefan came up with these. This is a Stefan thing.

SPEAKER_00 46:52

All right. Did not know this. Film was shot in sequence. Very rare. That's like extraordinarily rare. And I I'd be very curious to know why he did it that way. Same.

SPEAKER_04 47:07

Yeah. We've done a few of these movies that have been shot in sequence. Was What Dreams May Come one of them, maybe? Or maybe it was Alien 3. Those have a correlation, maybe. But like it I find like we've had a few of these pop up, but as you said, Steph, it's like incredibly, incredibly and also challenging. Yes. Yeah, really hard. Is that why this movie is covered in blue and green plates all the time on the camera? Listener, if you're unaware, a plate is like a piece of glass normally, depending it may be done digitally. That makes the the film look like it has a blue or green or yellow or whatever, pink haze. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:42

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 47:44

Yeah, it's it definitely it definitely adds some continuity to the film, there's no doubt. Um, and there seems to be a lot of the superhero motif in it, is like I think the superheroes that are often depicted in green in the film.

SPEAKER_01 48:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:00

Um and I think in the very first comic book, in fact, I think that it was uh I think it was a purple villain and a green and a green uh hero, and that motif sort of continues through the film. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:13

But I love Samuel L. Jackson, by the way, huge fan of purple in general, is my understanding as like a person and an actor. But it looks so great to me, those those what look to me like grays and blues, and then his purple inside of it. It's so fucking great.

SPEAKER_02 48:30

Like a purple lightsaber. Exactly. On a purple lightsaber. Actually, lightsabers are only green.

SPEAKER_00 48:35

Yeah, technically that's not allowed. It's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_04 48:38

No, but Samuel L. Jackson, motherfucker. But why you made this up? Tell me, Samuel L. Jackson, right now in 1998, that you can't give me a purple lightsaber. Shut the fuck up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:52

That's what he wants.

SPEAKER_00 48:54

But yes, uh, super, super comic booky kind of styled film, really interesting shot composition. Love it. A lot of uh one of the things that I'm I'm still kind of wrestling with and trying to piece together lots of uh inverted images in the film that I didn't remember. Yes, and then yeah, things rotating. Uh I think the first, you know, the train accident, the son is laying on the couch, he's watching the TV upside down. And what's strange is when in that instant you wouldn't usually cut to the uh perspective of the sun and and leave it there. You would if you're gonna turn the camera around, you'd turn around and you'd now you know kind of reassume the position of because we when we were looking at the sun, we were looking at him right side, or you know, he was upside down. Yeah. But when we turn around to the TV, the TV is also upside down, which is I thought I thought it was very interesting.

SPEAKER_04 49:48

Yeah, I um I enjoy the symbolism of like when the world is upside down or right side up and to whom. And I feel like it doesn't do overdo it, which is nice. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:58

I just love all the I just I love visually, man. I love the reflection shots. I love I love the shots around something. And like and like, you know, like even on the train, the constantly like moving back and forth. And the we'll get into this too, but the shot when he's in the bedroom and discovers the mom who's tied up and it's through the curtains. Oh man. And like we gotta save some of this. I was watching that and I was just like, like it like flaps when it wants to show him, and then flaps down here to show her, and then flaps back to showing him. I'm like, is somebody just down there, like a PA?

SPEAKER_00 50:31

Yeah, it's insane.

SPEAKER_04 50:31

I thought the same thing. And I I gotta say, real quick before you go on, Stefan, about the fun facts. I just did eight millimeter for this podcast. Actor I love, director I like, movie I fucking hate. And like that movie wanted to like look like seven. And I don't think this movie wants to look like seven, it just has moments that are if are as evocative for I don't know, it has like a vibe to in the rain. Yeah, it has the riz. Yeah, that too. Yeah, seven has a lot of rings.

SPEAKER_00 50:59

Yeah, good point. All right, more facts. More fun facts. So this film also features a somewhat literal example of the Chekhov's gun, which if you're not familiar, Anton Chekov was you know like one of the most famous Russian playwrights of all time. And he had this theory of Chekhov's gun, which was that if you show a weapon in the first act, it has to come back uh at another point, otherwise it should not be included. Yeah, no worries. I it's a it's a classic kind of writing trope that you know Checkov's gun, especially if you're gonna be doing anything in like the mystery thriller genre, you have to know it because uh you can either include it as a red herring, you know, something that is not going to feature, um, or if it does, it's in a very kind of

Brought To You By

SPEAKER_00 51:50

inverted way where you're not expecting it to feature how it does. Yeah, or you gotta use it.

SPEAKER_04 51:54

Um you go into half-baked and somebody hands a guy a crossbow and you're like, fucking hey, here we are.

SPEAKER_00 51:59

Yeah. Use it or lose it, I think is what Chekhov said originally.

SPEAKER_03 52:04

Good pull, good pull.

SPEAKER_00 52:05

I think he said that. Um and then uh yeah, in the 2020 interview, Spencer Treaty Clark, who plays the sun, he's uh uh Joseph. Uh he said that a crew member had to lead the set after filming the kitchen gun scene because he was so disturbed by the scene.

SPEAKER_04 52:23

Well, I have a counterpoint. Very upsetting. I I guess but I have a counterpoint. Well, this is my technical. Is that fake news? No, no, sir. No, no. This is independent 90s CNN. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 52:38

Okay. This is still one of his true news.

SPEAKER_04 52:44

I'm Ted Turner and I'm in charge of CNN. It's gonna be on your refrigerator someday, dammit.

SPEAKER_00 52:48

God damn it. No, no. Well, wait, so I missed. What is the what is your uh what's your response to it? To what now? I'm sorry? Sorry, I thought you said you had a response.

SPEAKER_04 53:01

I'm saving it for the actual conversation. Where uh it's my Chekhov's gun. Will it come back? Will it not? What's the difference? Oh, this is your Chekhov's gun.

SPEAKER_00 53:08

Yeah. It has been planted, okay. Exactly. And look at us waiting on pins and needles and doing its job.

SPEAKER_04 53:15

That was my that was my intent.

SPEAKER_00 53:17

Wow. Uh, and then lastly, Audrey plays the rife, the wife was originally offered to Julianne Moore. Interesting. Um, which would have been, I think, a really interesting turn. I think that uh she also could have played that role superbly, although Robin Wright did an incredible job, in my opinion. I agree. Um But David and Elijah were written specifically with Bruce Willis and Samuel Jackson in mind, uh, to portray them in the film. And kudos to M. Night Shamlan because most directors don't get their first choices for, you know, it's it's pretty rare that you just say, I want him and him, and you go and get them. Uh that's tough, especially when you're talking about Samuel and Jackson. Bruce Willis were at the peak of their careers around this time, uh, to be able to just make a phone call and say, Hey, I want you in this. Obviously, M. Shawn Line's riding a high coming into it.

SPEAKER_02 54:11

Yeah, Sixth Sense helped a lot.

unknown 54:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:15

I feel like this is incredible.

SPEAKER_04 54:17

This was the first movie post like Bruce Willis reinvention renaissance. Like the the end of a chapter was Die Hard with a Vengeance, which was massively successful. And these two stars work so so well. 96, 97, 5, 95, 95, 96. And then he does the Sixth Sense. And like that's a different kind of Bruce Willis than what I'm used to seeing, anyway. Yeah. And uh a much different approach, exactly. Yeah, and not as sardonic and everything. And then like his first post thing is like super hot director, like this very proven pairing and everything. And this is not the movie I expected.

SPEAKER_02 54:52

I think it's related to his hairline.

SPEAKER_04 54:55

Let's not talk about it. That's not hairlines are not important. Yeah, it's a little bit of a sensitive topic for me. We're gonna say we're yeah, we're gonna evoke the spirit of Gene Roddenberry and say, you know what, Patrick Stewart's great. That shit doesn't matter. We you don't need your erections to last longer, and what's the other thing from mediocracy? Like, yeah, Merial Pattern Boldness. Yeah. These are not society's true problems. You don't need a refrigerator with a TV in it.

SPEAKER_02 55:20

Well, we need the log line of this. Would you like to read the log line of this movie for us, Stefan? And then we're gonna take a small break.

SPEAKER_04 55:26

Yeah, it's on the teleprompter of your TV on your fridge there.

SPEAKER_00 55:30

Yeah, well, I'm curious because uh I don't know if I I want to make sure I'm reading the right log line here.

SPEAKER_04 55:38

No, please read it just the way it is, please.

SPEAKER_00 55:40

Okay. You ready? Here's the log line for the film. When a massive killer shark unleashes chaos on the beach community off Long Island, it's up to the local police chief, a marine biologist, and an old seafarer to hunt the beast down.

SPEAKER_02 55:54

Why did I farm Well and the do to you, Spanish ladies? Nice.

SPEAKER_04 56:00

Why did I why did I farm this part out to AI? What am I doing?

SPEAKER_02 56:06

I just went to the Jaws exhibition in at the Academy Museum yesterday.

SPEAKER_00 56:11

And they had the unbreakable log line, didn't they?

unknown 56:14

Yeah, they mixed it.

SPEAKER_00 56:16

Yeah, they mixed it up.

SPEAKER_04 56:18

Academy museum got my email. They you know, we mixed it up. It happens. Uh Stefan, if it's super easy for you to pull up the actual log line, we'd love that too. If it's easy for you. Thank you. It is.

SPEAKER_02 56:31

I mean, it's still a plumber. It's blockbuster, it's Jaws Summer. I'm gonna not touch with the clammy end of my hand. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 56:37

I uh is that because we read? We read this whole thing and it took till we got to here to notice that. Is that your like default template? Uh no, it was probably I mean, yes, it is my default template, and it's the log. We're doing Jaws pretty soon, Stefan. So I I gathered. I that was my jaw.

SPEAKER_00 56:54

I think I was

Cinephile Round

SPEAKER_00 56:56

Oh, he didn't tell you about that?

SPEAKER_02 56:57

No, it's one of my favorite movies.

SPEAKER_00 56:59

Paul and I are doing it. We're we we're keeping you out of it.

SPEAKER_04 57:03

What the fuck? We're gonna need a bigger podcast. No, we're we're doing Jaws next month. I'm almost certain I've communicated this. Well, we'll we'll get to this off mic, Stefan. Don't worry, it won't get weird. Sure. No, but uh with a guy named John from a podcast called All the Right Movies. Okay, and I think it's on both of our breaker lists.

SPEAKER_02 57:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 57:24

So, but yeah, prepare yourself for talking about your like your all-time favorite movie.

SPEAKER_02 57:28

It's not my all-time favorite, it's one of my favorites.

SPEAKER_04 57:31

Okay, well, uh a top tenor for you, if that's fair to say. That is fair. Uh do you have the log line, Stephanie? I've got it.

SPEAKER_00 57:38

Ready?

SPEAKER_04 57:39

You're a gem.

SPEAKER_00 57:40

After walking away from a catastrophic train crash unharmed, a depressed security guard is forced to confront the staggering possibility that he possesses superhuman abilities with the guidance of a mysterious stranger obsessed with comic books.

SPEAKER_02 57:55

That's not bad. And when does he hunt the shark?

SPEAKER_00 57:59

Who also hunts sharks. That's right.

SPEAKER_04 58:04

In the computer. So M. Night Shyamalan hates vehicles, hates water, loves twists.

SPEAKER_00 58:12

Loves twists.

SPEAKER_04 58:14

So get ready for the ride, everybody. Stefan Vandergraft's with us. We are about to finally play some Cinephile, and then we are going to talk about Unbreakable. Watch some ads on the TV in your refrigerator. We'll be back.

SPEAKER_02 58:28

You're ready. I'm ready. Thank you. Sorry, we're back. I got a little distracted.

SPEAKER_04 58:32

Sorry, we're back.

SPEAKER_02 58:34

I was I was watching. Sorry, Stefan, we came back. I was watching the Odyssey on the fridge.

SPEAKER_04 58:41

And it looked amazing. It's it's vertical. IMAX. They call it verti uh Infinivision? Infinity Vision. Infinity Vision.

SPEAKER_02 58:48

I love I love Infinity Vision, the new like what Doom's Day is gonna be in, because they were like, we can't get IMAX because Dune part three has taken it. So we've made up something

First & Current Experiences

SPEAKER_02 58:58

called Infinity Vision. What is it? Don't fuck you. Don't look into it.

SPEAKER_04 59:02

Fuck you. Eat shit.

SPEAKER_02 59:03

Watch it. Eat your poop. So at the end, at the end of the Odyssey, I was like, Odysseus will return in Doomsday.

SPEAKER_04 59:13

I mean, it's gotta the horse has to look would I'll I am about to say something insane. The horse might actually look really cool in vertical. Just just a frame, just a photo, a photo of the horse.

SPEAKER_02 59:27

They have the actual Trojan or one of the Trojan horses they built at the Universal City Walks where I saw where I saw the Odyssey, which was cool. Wow, very cool. It was pretty awesome to see one of one of the many horses I'm sure they built. Of course.

SPEAKER_04 59:42

We're about to play a round of Cinephile. It's a round robin game. There's an actor and a movie that the actor has been in on a card, and someone is gonna go first. First person that can't say the name of a movie that actor was in has to tell their first experience with this movie if it wasn't this one, and then their most recent one and their ratings for both before we get in our ultimate discussion debate about our final-ish ratings until our next viewing. Stefan, who's going first? Oh I think it's gonna be Paul. Oh, okay. And if it if it is a very quote unquote obscure uh name, we're going back to the diet. The title just gets yeah.

unknown 1:00:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:32

Nope. You're ready for a long round, listener. It's Robert Downey Jr., co-star of the Shane Black written and directed Kiss Kiss Bang Bang. I'm gonna go with Iron Man.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:53

Is that gonna clear all Iron Man?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:55

No, you have you have a full gauntlet.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:58

So I could go Iron Man 2.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:59

That's funny. I could go Iron Man 3. I could go the Avengers.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:05

I could go Avengers Endgame.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:08

The Avengers Infinity War. Avengers Age of Ultra.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:14

Uh Civil War.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:17

Chaplain. Oh, that's a good one. I almost I was gonna use that one. Uh Spider-Man Homecoming.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:28

Did I say endgame?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:30

You did. You can pull all the time.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:31

I didn't say infinity war.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:33

I think we did. Somebody made it go ahead and say a non-Marvel if you have one.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:37

No one has a Oppenheimer.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:42

Weird science.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:44

Doctor Doolittle.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:46

Oh, good one. Uh Tropic Thunder.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:50

Oh, that's such a good movie. The Judge. The Judge.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:57

I'm not going to go out with the very very kind of you as we were. I think it was very kind to give you a second shot after. I was like, I don't know which uh which uh Marvel we said or didn't say, so I felt it was fair to give you.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:15

I think I'm gonna I think I'll be I'm gonna be vindicated in the comments, I'm pretty sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:20

Dude, the Reddit thread is going insane right now. There are going nuts. There are dozens of subscribers. Dozens.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:27

I'm sure I miss, I mean we all miss some, but um, you know, we get the pressure gets yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:35

There's a pressure release.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:36

Yeah. Um it's been confirmed. If the kid put the gun down, we're ready. I'm also an idiot. Uh I'm also an idiot. I will flog myself later. Um just start, I'll look at his IMDB and hit myself. And I'll and similar to this podcast, I get to be in the cuck chair.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:52

It's really cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:55

That's why he's so much shorter than me.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:59

Yeah, you intentionally yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:01

He's not my arthritic lower back just disintegrating as we record.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:06

So uh Unbreakable was a movie that I did not see in the theater. Okay. I did see the Sixth Sense in the theater. Sure. Wow. Um and I was, let's see, that was 99, right? So I was I was in I was a preteen, so I was not old enough to go see Sixth Sense in the theater, but my because it was an RR film or is it PG 13?

SPEAKER_04 1:03:26

I've I feel like it's PG 13. PG 13. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:29

Well, it was creepy. Creep the shit out of me.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:31

Yeah, yeah, for sure. It haunted me for years. Yeah, that I've pushed on you a lot. The changelings.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:36

Like did the atmosphere of the movies just the sequence in the Sixth Sense that scared the shit out of me was the kid who's like, Come here, I'm gonna show you where my dad keeps his gun. Yeah. And that haunted me like for years. Um so I didn't see Unbreakable in the theater. I don't remember why, but I remember watching this on VHS renting it from Blockbuster. It might have been from the grocery store, actually. Like a grocery store rental. Blockbuster. It's we'll talk about it. It was interesting. It was in a better time. Interesting. Um and I watched it with my grandfather. Uh yeah. That's cool. Yeah. Uh may he rest in peace. I hope Gramps liked it. I believe he did. Excellent. Uh may he rest in peace. Um and I I think at that time, like, I don't think I was really old enough to appreciate so much about this movie. And I think I went into it thinking that it was gonna be more I guess superhero oriented because of it the way that or horror-oriented, or one of the two. Um I didn't really know much about it. So I I think that it felt slow for me at sure at that age. Um and again, I'm an idiot. Uh and was probably you know, I was looking for something else, and it didn't didn't meet those expectations. So I would have probably given it three back then. Um and I I I I haven't really watched it in any sort, like I know I haven't watched it sitting down watching it in a very long time. It might have been a movie that I watched in college when I was smoking too much weed and drinking too much alcohol that I don't remember much about. But because I I remember going pretty hard in the shameland um stuff. Sure. Uh everybody watched The Village. Watch The Village. I think I've seen everything. Everybody watched Signs. Yeah. Um the only one I think I watched only about half of was The Happening because it was What? No, one of the worst movies I've seen. Um but uh so this was the first time last night that I actually like sat down and watched this movie, and I I knew that there was reverence for this movie. Um Um like from from a lot of angles, and I was was um excited to go back into it and watch it with new fresh eyes. And I felt like I I I again, like I said, kind of like showed my hand a little bit. I'm really impressed with the patience in the filmmaking. And I think that that takes so much uh courage and willingness to like commit to what your tone and what your story is telling and saying. Um and I I I think like as we were talking about indie filmmakers and like a movie like this would be hard to pitch for a theatrical release today, I think.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:43

That's the only thing that makes me feel like this was a planned universe is that somehow this got sold at all. And like some studio people were like, IP, but I also I more believe that many years later M night was like time to time to go into this world again.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:02

Yeah, I mean I think there's a lot you can say about right now with indie filmmakers like obsession and backrooms and like filmmakers who are coming up in a similar way that he did. Um so I it's not my favorite shyan. I I I am teetering. I'm sort of in between a three and a half and a four. I was like, what's the twist here? You're keeping me up. There's a needles. Okay. And so I I think that like I I I'm I could go either way. I can't I can't liberty rule this, uh, which means I can't go between three and a half and four. So I'm gonna I'm gonna currently gonna stick at three and a half. Uh I didn't come up with a clever rating system, so I'm gonna come up with it right now, and I'm gonna say three and a half silver guns with black handles. Um I knew you were thinking that. I knew it. And I felt it through my clammy fucking hand. And I'm I'm open. I love that I love so much about this movie and how it looks and how it um it feels. So that's where I'm at. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:04

That's a good answer.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:06

Are you feeling the three and a half more or the four? Commit. Well, I'm going with three and a half now, but I feel like I could move up pretty quickly. I just need to leave.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:14

I just need to feel like your chest out that the three and a half. Three and a half willing to discuss and move. Okay. Okay. Silver guns with black handles. All right. Stefan, uh it goes to you if it's clockwise from us. Yeah, it's it's you. The first experience, current experience.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:33

First experience. I was actually very similar. Uh watch it at home. I don't think I saw Sixth Sense in the theaters. I think I might have been a little bit too young, but I do remember seeing it very young and also being traumatized. Watched it at home, blockbuster rental for sure. On a weekend, I remember watching it with my family. Uh and my mom also rest in peace. She did not, she liked it, but I remember vividly her being very upset by some of the scenes showing the abuse that was happening. And she felt like that was like I remember she was a little bit like that's just uncalled for, like, you don't need to show that. Um and maybe it was in part because of like the taboo nature of the film and being like borderline rated R for a kid my age when I saw it, I probably I don't know how long afterwards it would have gone to uh gone to Blockbuster, but I I suppose it's well back then what was like a year maybe? Yeah, I think yeah, it was a while. So I think I was probably like 11 or so when it when it um maybe 11 or 12 when I when I finally saw it. Um but because it was like teetering on the like eh, you probably shouldn't be seeing this, but like that that made you love it. Yeah, I think so. I think that like if I gave my OG score, I would say it would have been a four.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:10

Uh I think I really, I think I really liked it. Um, and in part because I can usually clock, like, I can kind of remember how much I liked the film based off of how indelible some of the scenes and images and uh moments of the film were in my adult brain. And in re-watching this, I was shocked at how much I remembered from this film. After not seeing it for so long, I was like, I remember exactly what's about to happen. Um, which I think to me is not only the mark of a very good filmmaking, but I think it's also the mark of a film that was very that left a deep impression on me. So I would give it a four um today. I would probably still give it a four, but I think I might give it a four and a half. I don't think I could ever give it a five. I don't think I can give it a five. To me, a five is the perfect film, and I have a pretty short list of films I would say are perfect. But I don't have a lot of gripes

Start The Movie (conversation)

SPEAKER_00 1:11:11

with this film.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:12

There's only one Milo Notice, baby.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:14

Yeah. There's only one Milo Notice. Uh there's only one Tropic Thunder. That's right. So uh yeah. I I yeah, I think that I think that I just I can't find a lot of faults in it. And so because of that, I'm like, well, then why wouldn't I give it a four and a half? It's not a perfect film to me, but like, but I don't have a great reason to not give it a four and a half. So it's it's it's four, but it's bleeding four and a half for me.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:39

Great. Okay, I love that. Well, you're wrong, because this looks like shit on my refrigerator.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:45

This is easier. Okay, true. Fair on my refrigerator. They didn't have those when I rented it for Blockbuster.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:51

So uh first experience for me, I'm a horror nut. I saw way too many things way, way, way too early in life. It's like four months ago when I was but four years old. I saw Nightmare in Elm Street. No, but I I saw that movie at a very young age. And so I remember seeing Sixth and like guessing the ending like a little shit and saying it in the theater. Oh, he's dead. Spoiler alert, listener, fuck you. He's dead.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:22

Bob for a movie that came out in 1999. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:25

Like we're gonna keep we're gonna keep pushing that narrative. Sometimes we don't need the spoiler alert, okay. But uh I kind of was like six cents lame, and then saw it on video, and similar to Ben with you, where it's like when you see the imagery again, and for me, like when I'm in this space, like in the dark or whatever, I was like, Oh fuck, this movie's like good, and it's jarring and it's shocked because there's like a level of realism, and that's what I I think I found in Unbreakable. First time I watched it, it was like on DVD, kind of at a party, and it just like grabbed me and was super duper into it. There's a level of it being so austere, and do I think it's a perfect visual film? Do I like every piece of visual flair? Absolutely not, and we're gonna get into that. But like I bought this on Touchstone Vista series DVD. Wow, yeah, watched with my dad at some point, uh, and he really liked it, and I liked signs at a point in time and have not like the last time I saw that, like, don't look back on it with much reverence, but I look back on this movie with a lot of reverence. I rated that movie a four, I just watched it, and we've talked about some of the detail stuff in this movie. I'm gonna rate it a four. I rented it, I paid for it, and I'm not upset that I paid for it. And when we say four, listener, and there isn't a heart on it, especially, because that's when we're saying, me as an individual, I like this. It doesn't matter if anybody thinks it's bad. This is a good movie, and it deserved every bit of uh you know, accolades and and reverence that it got. So four out of five purple canes. Oh that thing is so fucking cool. And arguably for me, in a gorgeously shot movie, that cane breaking is burned into my brain. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:24

Four. I think Signs is like a 85% of a good movie.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:30

Yeah, again, the water in the vehicle stuff comes into play kind of again from this movie, and it's just not as effective for me, as well as some of the Yeah, it's again, it's not that that it's bad. I don't know if you think it is, maybe Ben. I like Science, like it's it's perfectly entertaining.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:46

It's a perfectly entertaining. I would love to know what that set was like with Mel Gibson and Walking Phoenix. Oh, fucking idiot.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:52

Yeah. I think it was like before both of them kind of went a little crazy. So like they might have still been like and now like they're both I don't know. Anyways, yeah, that would have been a very crazy for different reasons. Yeah, yeah, like they've yeah, they're very different reasons. And interestingly though, it's like I I kind of like both of them for different reasons. Like they're they're acting in different films for different reasons. They're very different. I I guess what I'd say is I never would have seen Vachine Phoenix going on to do the career that he's had. No, bro.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:23

Bro, I just watched uh and I is it okay to call you bro. Yeah, you got a real familiar. Thanks, bro. Yeah, so thanks, chum.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:30

That got intimate. Well, you said bro, not chum.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:33

Hey, don't worry about my friends. Come on, pal.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:36

Listen, he's in London, you have to say bruv.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:39

Come on, bro. So uh never walk alone. No one's not. Just get you your fucking point. Yeah, I know, right? So I fucking lost it. Eight millimeter. That Joaquin Phoenix performance is arguably the most enjoyable thing in that movie. Like, you know, he's also again in signs, he's really good. Gladiator. Yeah, dude. Nail, head, meet each other. So we're at a three and a half. Say it with your chest. Three and a half, baby. Four and a four. We're gonna talk about unbreakable.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:09

Okay. That opening sequence is I again like the shots through the mirrors or through the TVs, or the like, and the patience of sitting in the shot and letting your actors just act, and that the reveal that this was a shot in in a reflection shot, which didn't initially like when you first see this opening shot, I didn't realize it was a reflection. And so that when we saw that, I'm just like that is fucking cool. And I'm and I'm here for and those actors in that sequence are carry that like you just let them carry it in such a great way. I loved it. I love that opening. Yeah, I do too.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:46

I think it is to me, is I was watching it, I thought that that's up there for me as a masterclass of the first 15 minutes of the film.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:58

To me, like I I forgot at how good that film is at just like setting the stage for you that you're just kind of like, I'm I'm in, like, I have to watch. And I think specifically the train sequence, yeah, one shot only moving back and forth between is like that's something that should be studied in film school. If you're like an aspiring filmmaker, like look at the way that that scene is composed, how much exposition happens in that scene with without ever really talking about exposition. Yeah, like you're getting the characters' names, you're getting like the thing with the ring, and you know, like it's just a brilliant sequence. And then to go straight, I I just I thought it was really impressive, and I was trying to think, I'm like, what other films have I seen lately that have a better first 15 minutes? And I I I really struggled to think um of a film that it was like that that film had me just like hook, line, and sinker. And I think that after that, it like it it maybe bobbles a little bit, but like yeah, the the patience. Um I would be interested. I I kind of want to go back and watch it again and see how many shots actually got us through that first. Do you know?

SPEAKER_02 1:18:17

No, no. Please finish your point. The first act I think is incredible. I think the first act of this movie is I I agree, like, there's not a lot of movies that, especially in those first 15 minutes. I think Inglorious Bastards is close for me in the first movie. Incredible, yes. Yes, like yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:34

I put it, I I don't put it above Inglorious Bastards, but I put it uh an in a similar category of just like how do you get an audience to just like butts and seats, glue to the television. Uh, and I think that those are two just like they're masterclasses of it.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:50

And it's so hard to make a good movie that takes place in the real world with fantastic elements that work.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:56

And like it's like we go, I'm so nostalgic for Touchstone movies. Yeah, I miss the movies they did. Like, I don't like necessarily open the opening info dump where it's like these are all the comic book numbers and whatever. And it's like, think of the percentage of people that like could be Mr. Guts. Like, seems like it's a little intense, but then do you go to the perspective of the little girl on the train? That kids can tell he's special, that there's something about him that is that look because I think we're in the perspective of the little girl on the train, and these are adults with adult problems like divorce and infidelity and money, and that's the big difference for me watching this as an adult. It's like, wow, I this worked for me as a fantasy as a kid, and it's not a punchy kicking movie at all. And now it works for me as like more of a drama.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:47

Well, yeah, yeah, and it's interesting because you don't really know like with the ring, like it seems like it's uh like is this a is this a bad person? Is this a malicious person? Are they like betraying someone? Yeah, um, and you don't human, he's just human. You don't know, and then the like the the next shot with him in the hospital and to have the body on the foreground and him in the background, and then to see the blood start seeping, yeah, seeping in. And and brilliant, it's a brilliant shot, and you're like, you're the only two two survivors, and like that's the idea.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:21

Yeah, and that's the brilliantly dry Michael Kelly from most famously House of Cards delivering that just so brilliantly of the like this is so matter of fact, but like I'm amazed, I care, this is tragic. Like, it's it's a weirdly depend depending on what you consider a saltine cracker, it's so fucking layered.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:43

I think those performances from actors like in parts like that, like the doctors or so like those are some of the hardest as an actor to do because you're given very little, like I think it's easier to do a like a guest star or a co-star or something like that. Oh, sure. But when you're just like you're a doctor in this moment, like you kind of have to fabricate so much. You're the authority figure, you're carrying it. And so you have to be the alpha in the scene, you have to carry the fact that this is shocking, but don't show us that it's shocking, right? You're a doctor, you're trying to take care of somebody. Uh and so like his You see people bleed out, you can see why that actor, what's his name? Doctor Michael Kelly, who goes on to be in House of Cards and many other things. You can see that he's fucking brilliant in that scene.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:27

Willis is great too. The level again, the level of stillness that happened. Bruce Willis, who I think is a great physical actor too, and so funny uh to move back half a step on the train. Again, how beautifully hypnotizing this movie is. It feels like everything around him is shaking, even before the accident, but he's not shaking. It's just he's not like a f if water's not like if water's not physically touching him, what are his powers? He's psychic, enhanced strength.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:58

I mean, he's got like spidey sense if he touches someone, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:01

Yeah, that's a good way to put it. So that's the basic thing, and he survives this horrible train wreck, and his wife, after this train wreck, it's so fucking bad between them. There is no level of thank goodness, no relief, no nothing. She's just like, nope, not holding hands. And again, like as an adult viewer, you're like, fuck.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:20

Like, how bad is this? Yeah, it's it's and to already kind of have a plot twist in the film because you have this guy who's removing his ring and he's you know clearly flirting, but then he kind of denies it, and you're sort of thinking, ah, this guy's, you know, like he's a bit of a scumbag. Like this is a superhero.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:39

You know, he's taking off his ring.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:40

Yeah, he can't be a superhero. And then you see like more of the situation of this plot twist where it's like, oh no, they are very estranged. This is not going well.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:48

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:49

Uh and it just immediately adds like a layer of complexity. And you're like, oh, this is gonna be a very layered nuanced thing where it's gonna be a bit of a dissection of what it means to be a hero. And I thought it was brilliant.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:04

I the level though, of like it's been three hours since he was the sole survivor of like this horrible seeming accident, and it's like Robin Wright comes up and she was like, Hey, I was watching the TV on the fridge, and I was thinking, uh, it's cool you're alive, but we should still get divorced. And you're like, fuck, it's so fucking brutal. But the terrible but I mean it it's more like Watchmen than anything else, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:31

Yeah, there's a darkness to it. I think, I think too though, like what M M. Shamlin was so in his bag at the in this era. I don't I uh you know we could spend a long time talking about like where did it kind of start going wrong.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:45

After the last time I bought it.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:47

Yeah, maybe maybe it's punishment. Did he do after earth?

SPEAKER_04 1:23:51

When were the yeah and Stefan in the water? Yeah, that and Stefan by the the village. Stefan, by the way, we uh we talk about this as best we can, kind of like chronological. You already know this, I think, but just yeah, yeah. So hopefully you have hopefully you don't have a lot of commitments in the next little bit.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:09

No, let's see what time is it. Uh how how how long do you guys want to go for?

SPEAKER_04 1:24:17

Another 30 minutes, probably. 30 minutes. That's good for me. 3040? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:20

Great if we could do yeah, if we can do 30, that's right.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:22

Closer to 30, perfect. So David David Dunn goes to the memorial for the survivors. Yeah. Which is him for the sorry, the memorial for the dead. When does he get the note on his venture?

SPEAKER_00 1:24:37

That's that's right then. Yeah, he's walking out, gets the note on the car.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:42

Um stands out so gorgeously.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:45

Yeah, this beautiful artistry of it. Yeah, right. Embossed, yeah, and like embossed specific.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:53

Well, and we get Elijah's uh origins throughout this. Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:57

We get yeah, we're getting these kind of flashes into his origins. And and we have this, I think, uh another really strong moment in uh when he is you know presenting this piece in his art gallery to this guy, and then he's like, Oh, my son's gonna love this. Uh, and him being like, Okay, no, you're not, no, never mind. Like, you're not buying this. This is not this is not a toy store.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:23

Um dude, it's so it's so great. I love that he's like the comic book guy from The Simpsons. It's kind of great.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:30

But he's been like the yeah, but like the very high Salutan version of the billionaire versus the Lex Luthor.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:36

He's clearly been very successful in life. Right, absolutely. That handful of comics his mother got him, whatever he did with that, like he did smart.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:45

He did well. Yeah, exactly. And I mean he did really well.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:48

And we get his whole story, like West Philadelphia, born and raised, watching nothing on the TV is how he spent most of his days, chilling out with Smax and relaxing all cool until his mom shows up and lectures him like a stupid fool. But he gets like these great gifts outside of his.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:02

He also wasn't playing B-ball because he would break every bone. Correct.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:06

That's true. Yeah, that was not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:09

No. Oh, this wasn't the story of Anthony Davis? All right. God, imagine that guy stayed healthy. I mean, a champion, a great player.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:18

But imagine that's actually really funny. I never put those two together. Yeah, they should have called him Mr. Glass.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:24

I mean, I l I love watching him play. I will I love when Anthony Davis is healthy, but he gets these comics and he becomes the comic book guy and he lectures that guy about Jeb. And then we get like this meeting between Dunn and Elijah about the letter.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:40

But I I I first off, I just really love his. I thought it was such an interesting commentary where he said this is the original drawing and the features are more realistic. And then when we see it in print, it becomes more exaggerated. Yeah. And I think it's such a great meta conversation on the movie and like just telling stories how we're going to exaggerate these features, and that his hair makes him look bigger. It makes his head look bigger.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:09

Everything visually about this movie, like I'm so compelled by this this movie, these these serious conversations and themes and the shot of him of Bruce of David uh from it's famous, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:27:21

It w it from the um tunnel in the when he was rain slicker man. Rain slicker man. It's it's such a beautifully composed, simple lighting. But lighting again with the water, you're just using so much of that reflection that like um uh yeah it but yes, we're to that meeting where because he he he wants to know what what's up. This guy, this guy wants to know more about why he put that note on his car.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:48

And Elijah explains like so many man, the twist really works for me in this movie. Like, so many occasions he has this physical ailment that Drives his motivation more than anything else. Because he has avian bone syndrome. He has hollow bones. And I don't like this. Is the first like little hole in the movie where Willis is like, throw away the water. This guy's dangerous. And then he tells him where he works. And I'm like, what? Like, why are you telling this man? Because the movie's gotta happen, Paul. Shut up. Doesn't it look great? Shut up.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:28

He jumped out at me as like, okay, well, yeah. Oh, heavy-handed. Uh be like, tell your son to like put down the water for sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:35

Sure, but this is why we're at a four to whatever degree. Like, it's not that I dislike Michael Bay's work necessarily. Uh, welcome to the rock, everybody, for sure. But like, I don't want to watch Revenge of the Fallen necessarily. I don't, I don't love Zack Snyder's visual style seeming to be inspired by Mr. Glass's like lecture almost like this is fucking art. And I'm not saying it's not, but art is also subjective.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:03

Yeah. I I was gonna say what I thought was brilliant about uh this film as a quote unquote superhero movie is that usually uh to me the strength of a superhero movie is pretty directly correlated to really to two things. One is the legitimacy of the villain's claim, uh, and then two, the stakes for the hero. And this is why, like, to me, modern Marvel movies don't work at all, is because the legitimacy of the claims are always terrible and there are no stakes for the heroes because nothing can happen to them. They're all they're all superhuman to the point where they they're they're they're there's nobody really at risk of dying, and so you don't really feel the implications of the stakes. So what I love about this is he just his is just a basic calculus. He just says, by the law of of statistics, if there's somebody like me on the planet that is so frail and broken genetically from birth, then there has to be somebody on the other end of the parabola or the you know the the spread. And that to me is like fair fair enough. Like I I can't object to that. Um and so to me that anchors him as a villain of like there's some rationality there that's not just like I'm so mad, I need to like do something. It's just like he just was doing basic statistics and saying, look, there's there's either end of the bell curve, and I'm on one, so there should be somebody on the other.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:42

Yeah, and and he's sympathetic, he's not the villain at this point, he's not framed as the villain at this point. And to what you were saying, Stefan, and to what you were saying, Ben, obsession and the odyssey exist. Like, there is a level of like that's fucking interesting. Like, I am very interested in in again, like what is being said, the drivers for the characters and being in this world than I am by punching and kicking in, oh my god, Steve Rogers is back or whatever. Like, this is deeper than that. And it a lot of things are told through like flashbacks or different versions of kind of exposition dumps where David Dunn gets the articles and it's like he was the superhero athlete, and but he was hurt, and we as an audience see this and we see that gun.

Meet Me Halfway (through the movie)

SPEAKER_04 1:31:31

And the the beauty of the the writing of the possible reconciliation being the thing that has me still like really hooked to the movie, where it's like, okay, maybe this guy's not a superhero, and like what's gonna happen with that from here as his kids invested in this weird guy and whatever, but now he's maybe gonna reconcile.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:52

Well, and he I feel like writing too, he does a great job of like introducing these events like the car crash that you're like, tell me more, please. Like, yeah, tell me more, please. And like he was hurt, and and and he doesn't though, right? He gives you he gives you snippets of it, right? Or like conversations about it. Um, and like that's something where you're just like, okay, and that that's that's hard to do for a writer. I think like not only is it an expository piece that we need to know for the movie to happen, but also like for me to be like, cool, I want to I like zoom in, please. I would like to know more about this.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:30

I'd like to know more.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:31

Yeah. Um and that like that is that is a credit to him uh uh with the writing. Like it it'd be easy to want to give that up earlier, you know? Sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:42

I I I think the writing and the directing and the the editing all showed a very they're all very strong in their patience. Yeah. Um which is again, I think it's a mark of a of somebody who's really got a hone on their craft, is uh is can they be patient? Can they just say like, not yet, just wait, like it's it's coming. Uh because I think early filmmakers usually are just like they're so excited by their material that they just want to get it all out. Um whereas everything he did, and the shots that he chose and the way that they set up the camera and the way that it was written and the way that it was edited, it took their time. There were there was no rush. And yet it still is an hour and 45-minute film.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:23

Uh which is remarkable to me.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:26

I'd be so curious too, because when we get to I I I in the moop, I I know we're trying to speed along, but when Elijah comes to the stadium, right, um, and follows him to work. Yeah. And again, there is not a level of alarm here. But the shot of him and Elijah talking, it's from it's it's it's off, it's first asymmetrical, and it's like from behind these like bar, like sort of like these bars in the foreground.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:51

Yeah, like a bird, you're like you're a bird watching them.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:53

Yeah, and it's so patient that I'm just curious, like, how much coverage did they get? Or was he just like, no, I know I know this is what the shot is going to be. Yeah. Yeah, it's a good question. It takes a lot of like you know, courage to say this is this is the shot. I agree.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:09

Yeah, courage. Uh Stefan, you use the word craft where it's like it M. Knight Shyamalan, Bruce Willis, Samuel L. Jackson, Robin Wright, these are people that have put in like their 10,000 hours, and there's just so much craft on so many levels. It's uh if you could bring up the name of the DP for me, but it's just one of those things where it's like there's so many people executing top levels executing top levels of craft. When when Samuel Jackson is chasing the guy with the knife that was at the stadium, the physical acting that he's doing there, uh or not knife, he had a silver gun with a black handle, three and a half of them. And when he falls, and again the cane breaking, but it's just it's it's so fantastically photographed and fantastically scored, and and there's so much craft in here, and then it there's a level of it breaking for me where the woman on the train in the beginning of the movie is like, uh, this cornerback, he's six foot one, 230 pounds, he runs a 4330, and then you see him in the movie, and it's like, oh, that's just uh that's just some basic white, that's me. That's some basic white guy.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:24

Yeah, but it was a weird tie-in to bring that guy back. Like it was.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:28

I it feels it felt a little forced of of M Knight doing the kind of Illuminati connecting.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:35

Or was it David's powers?

SPEAKER_04 1:35:38

Oh, see, we need to be asking questions.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:41

I do like the workout sequence. My my favorite sequence. Although, as someone who tries to go to the gym, you need to you you gotta track how much fucking weight's on that bar before you take it off and say it.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:54

We've been taught to be like, how much did you put on? I'm like, dude, you didn't look. We've been talking about this through this episode. I don't care if you've put in your 10,000 hours, use a fellow adult spotter standing behind you. Don't use a child in a closet yelling, when your mother's like, I want you to stand back.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:09

It's like stand back in case of what? In case you see this thing crush my hair. Watch me die. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:15

I do love though, we've been talking about the editing, the way it's edited. It's like seamless when I think there are like lifting doubles for Willis, and the way like the camera mounted on the bar, the level of it feeling like a comic book. I use levels a lot in this episode, that word, but it feels the there's so much action in that scene that doesn't have a lot of exciting action.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:40

Yeah, yep. It explains a lot again. It's it's another brilliant example of show don't tell. Yeah, and it's how do you there could have been a scene where the kid was like, Dad, how strong are you? Well, son, let's talk. Like they could have done a dialogue scene, but they didn't. They're like, no, let's just show it. He's gonna do some superhuman feat of strength that is gonna be equal parts like funny and like a little bit anxiety-inducing at the same in the same moment. Yeah, it's just really it's really clever.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:13

He's got a very wide grip and it's uh very wide and very stable. Yeah, very stable. I I forgot my yeah, how's this? I had a little joke, don't worry. I had a chance. I mean, I thought the form was good.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:27

I'm not someone who like but a little wide in the grip, but it was that that was the only thing I noticed was that his grip was super wide, but yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:34

I I just find the level of craft in that scene to be really fun, and as you were saying, Stefan, like it's really funny, it seems breezily funny to break up the anxiety where I feel a level of dang Willis really shines in that moment, and the kid does a good job too, but Willis really shines for me in that moment.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:54

The family um dynamic is really strong, and yeah, like when we get to her question saying, uh it's not gonna affect me either way, it's not gonna affect me either way, just yeah, let me know. Like, just tell me, did you have you been with them? And it's not gonna affect and when he says like no and you see it like affect her, and she's so fucking great in that moment, and then saying, like, I want to make this work, it's it's a great little sequence. Um, and that you you know, you're getting so much again through show don't tell.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:26

And do you believe him based on what we've seen when he answers her? Stefan, do you believe him that he has not been with anyone else?

SPEAKER_00 1:38:35

I'm not so convinced, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:37

I love that you two have a difference of opinion. Why do you why do you feel the way you feel?

SPEAKER_00 1:38:42

I just feel like again in the like kind of show don't tell spirit. He lies in the very first scene that we see him, yeah, he takes out the ring. He's quick to do it. He's pretty quick. This guy, like, he sees, yeah, he sees what he wants pretty quickly. That ring is off. He's he's already like he's got him in. And then and when the girl's like, you know what, I I'm gonna go find another seat, he immediately is like, No, no, I wasn't I wasn't trying to do anything. I wasn't trying to I want to give him the benefit of the doubt and say, you know, it's probably you know, let's just assume that he's telling the truth. Um, yeah, but this is clearly, it feels like this has been going on for a long time. The estrangements has been going on for a long time.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:26

And you know, if you you go fishing enough times, you're gonna catch something.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:30

I love that you guys feel opposite, Ben. I feel a level of sincerity there. I do too.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:37

And I I what what I take is I think that maybe he's thought about it, and maybe there's been attempts, and maybe but like that moment to me felt like today is special because maybe it's today. And it's not like cheating, right? Because it seems like they are very much on a very separated right.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:57

You guys, yeah, you guys explained what I'm feeling perfectly, where I feel there's a level of sincerity, I feel there's a level of he's like, okay, I'm gonna fucking do this. The marriage is falling apart anyway, I'm doing it. But also, Stefan, I feel the level of him being quick to lie, committing very quickly to these lies and so forth, up to and including his actual physical health and stuff, and committing to his wife. He commits to that lies very, very fast. That's a big lie. And I like that there's a level of ambiguity in all these characters, including him, where it's like, I like to believe him, and Stefan. I like that there's this level of just like he is flawed and human, and and all these characters are still at this point.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:43

And like to keep going here, but I think he does play a lot in that moral ambiguity of this movie is telling us good and evil, right? Like this is like the sort of like two juxtapositions, and he does that again in signs with faith as sort of being the like main point. Uh but I think this character does like live in that gray, which I think is purposeful. Fifty shades at least. But but then but then makes a dis makes a very decisive choice.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:16

Yeah. He was an athlete. Like you have to make like very quick decisions. And to get so well right.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:21

And to get the exposition now where Elijah has come to get uh the uh with his wife. That that that again feels a little like did he choose her? Did he seek her out for PT? Was it happening? It couldn't have been happening.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:33

Was the injury like on purpose to and did he go to hospital? Like that's what I'm saying. I agree with that too. The level of happenstance that happens here, and when he says David to Robin Wright when he's in recovery for his injury, and she's like, I never said my husband's name. I if I'm her, I'm like, this is when I break your face. Like the fact that this is still happening and is being allowed that this yeah, I'm curious as an audience member, and but this also exists in a real world, and there's a level of deafness in storytelling and execution of like, oh my god, why are you doing this? But also, like movie, please keep movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:17

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's well said.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:21

Oh, well, thank you. And the movie has picked up so much momentum at this point for me, like where there've been bumps in the road for certain, but it's still moving really fast, like it it's an hour and 45-minute movie, but it moves at a really good clip. It chugs along where there's Willis letting people bump him and seeing what they have on them or what they've done. That's like at the exact halfway point of the movie, and that's a really cool piece of writing. And amongst a piece of writing that I don't like is the dialogue and that the happenstance of the Wright Jackson meeting, but those two actors do such incredible work of just underplaying it, and like I just want to continue hearing what you have to say. I feel the same thing as an audience member.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:12

Yeah, yeah, I I'm good.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:14

No, no, no, go, no, you go.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:16

No, I was just gonna say, I think that like, yeah, he that they do that the speed and pacing, in spite of it being a patient film that that that takes its time, the speed and pacing is incredible. It really does. Like it keeps you it keeps you completely engrossed. Um, which you know that's so hard to do. And uh it's again, yeah, one of the reasons why it's a four for me is just like I it's not yeah, it's just not easy to do that. Um, and I think that he does it superbly well.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:48

Yeah. I mean, you know, the the it really like the ball starts. I think the second act for me dips the terms a little bit, like there's moments, but I feel like for the most part, it starts to really pick up like the kid with the gun. Like that's a fucking insane sequence and very unsettling.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:06

Yeah, there's a level of it derailing for me when M. Knight casts himself and it's kind of like distracting, like, hope you find him. And that, but then it's like the pool story happens that kind of like debunks everything. We find out Willis like was dead for a period of time because he by the oldest woman on the planet, by the principal from Uncle Buck. I think he flicked her a quarter at the end of the scene, so she could go downtown and get a rat to not that she's actually, by the way, she's great. Yeah, she is so lived in in her like it's like that lady's been there for 40 years, she does such a great job. So shouts to that lady, yeah, yeah, for sure. But the the the dishes are happening and everything seems okay, like almost too okay, and the kid shows up with the gun while like Stevie Ray Vaughn is on. It feels so real. And when Bruce Willis says like his reason for don't shoot me isn't I'm not a superhero, I'm not what you think I am. He says like the most human thing, which is like, I'll leave. Yeah, I don't think if you're willing to shoot me, I'm fucking out of here. And then and he says like another cool thing to me, which is he says, like, friends don't shoot each other because he's talking to a kid in the one moment that I don't love Robin Wright, where I'm like, I hate this line, I hate the delivery. It's like, no shooting friends, Joseph. I'm just like, no, like the fact that I'm even mentioning right now, I'm like, it's like it's like an M-night showing up moment distraction. I'm way back in, and then another distraction, like bam, bam.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:43

Yes. No, I I completely agree. That's not the finest moment.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:48

And I don't know if you're a father, Stefan. Uh, we are both uh okay. How many kids do you have?

SPEAKER_00 1:45:54

I have one.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:55

Do you count to three? Are are you there yet?

SPEAKER_00 1:45:59

Will you? I mean, my son's my son's ten, so I haven't counted to three in quite a while. But probably once upon a time, I think I was probably counting to three.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:09

I think there's a power in counting to three that really exists. I think this movie conveys really well. Like, yeah, that's what motivates the kid to not shoot the dad above everything is the dad counts to three. Bruce Willis counts to three. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:25

And it works.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:26

Yeah, parent power though. He's such a good dad. Like, he's great.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:30

Yeah, he really is.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:31

You know, he's just a good like as a as a I mean, I don't know him as a human. Uh, I know it's a sad story. Um, but he just he on screen, he just feels you feel like you're in safe hands. And I don't know if that comes from his presence in like for me first was diehard, but you just you just feel like, oh, this person's gonna help us, this person's gonna take care of us, this person is like a good fatherly figure.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:56

That there are gonna be good times. I'm gonna be entertained. Like, I yeah, and my understanding is we're talking about it, as great of an actor as he is, and as charismatic of a performer as he is, and all these things, apparently the thing that he's done the greatest at in life is being a dad. Yeah, that's like a common thread for for him that is said by pretty much everybody who's seen him interact with his kids, is that he's super awesome at the dad thing, which is really, really cool and adds a as a viewer, again, like knowing how the sausage is made, like it adds some enjoyment to the movie because he feels so lived in to your point, Ben, as a dad in this movie, it's so authentic.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:39

Yeah, completely agree.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:41

I do so as we're comic book guy is authentic, too.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:44

As we're moving along, I I feel like it's fascinating, like to because we got the the the drowning, and to introduce that as like that's your one weakness. Yeah. Um as someone who's read comics, and um it's fascinating the comic books that they choose because the the two ones they like focus on are made up, like the active comics, the basic actyman active stories is action stories, right? Uh action comics, and then like sentryman, but then you see in the background, you see like Thor and stuff like right, but then they never ever say a DC, which tells me like they had zero rights to a DC. They had they always show maybe a Marvel, but then he says that is your kryptonite. And I was like, You haven't talked about Superman once, but but yet we all know what kryptonite means.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:30

Was this the precursor? Should we have known that Disney was gonna acquire Marvel?

SPEAKER_02 1:48:34

Listener, this is a Disney movie, technically but I just thought it was fascinating to you because we all know what that term means, kryptonite, and so I just thought to use that, but yet never and what we saw was not a Superman comic because they prop definitely couldn't get the rights.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:50

Um, and also I think that some of it was I think what I liked about Shaman's turn with a superhero movie is that he did kind of say like he he made it seems to me at least like an express choice to not say that this is Superman. Like it's such a grounded version of a superhero. Um and I think again, like the era it's just crazy to me that the era that this came out, um to me it felt like it it could have been a bit of like a uh it it has always felt a little bit like a period at the end of like the superhero story, uh just generally. That like what he what he showed was the very it feels like he told the the thriller version of what the boys tried to do. Of just like what is like the very grounded kind of like real world implication of a superhero? Something else. Um and yeah, he didn't he didn't quite go he never went to Superman because it was always like this. I I like your reference to Watchmen too. It always felt just like a little bit grittier and irreversible anyway.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:07

Irreversible? Or irredeemable? You mean invincible? Oh yes, yes. Irredeemable.

SPEAKER_05 1:50:13

The Western.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:16

There's like an alternate Superman. It's not the boys. I want it. Invincible. It might be invincible. Yeah, where it's like Superman's evil. It's similar to like Red Sun or whatever, where it's like the evil version of Superman. And some of these inverted things, intentional, uh like totally totally work that it has like a DC reference, but a Marvel comment. Like where there's all these counterpoints of so many things. After this kid like almost shot his dad. Yeah, where it's like, I think he's okay. Let's go on.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:52

I don't think it's okay to leave him alone.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:54

Yeah. And Elijah does this great, I mean, nonviolent resistance. There's a level of me being like, why didn't he break the glass case? Why didn't he do like and he like it? It's like clearly targeted at what he's knocking over. Yeah. But him getting the sentry man comic and then get the babysitter and the phone call and again, all these things happening, and the the babysitter having this moment of levity, and she she didn't pick up the phone. She didn't hear that message that Mr. Glass left, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:51:23

She I don't think so. So I I think I do think we need to jump to the third act though, sure for for for time purposes. Great. So I think uh like the final act when he decides when he makes the choice, like I'm going to I'm gonna stand in the middle of this train station and I'm gonna like I'm gonna be a hero. And security guards v custodians. Uh it's fair. I I think I do like there's interesting parts where I'm just like, do I need to see this like rape?

SPEAKER_04 1:51:54

Yeah. I don't like the noise of the cutaways. I don't like the way they're colored. I there's a lot of people. In like an orange jumpsuit that looks like these very orange prison yeah, or from another planet, or at least his clothing is like there's a level of like heavy-handedness, I think is some one of us used that word that I just didn't understand why it was orange because we just relate that to being a prison jumpsuit.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:16

I agree with that totally. And I was like, wait, is he like an escaped convict? He would take that off.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:21

I have a lot of yeah, yeah. It was a little

Final Ratings

SPEAKER_00 1:52:25

bit a little bit strange. I've never quite I still don't know if I quite understand what the I mean I get it.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:32

It's supposed to be like archetypal, maybe like we're trying to like like he's a villain now, and like you're a hero, and the hero his cape is his rain slicker. Like that is very clear. And I think the sequence, like, this is the closest we get to horror is the sequence at the house.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:47

Yeah. Um Sabretooth or Xavier, a version of that or whatever, versus Magneto. Like, it's one of the super villains that this superhero is gonna face. Like, it's not uh Lex Luthor, it's uh Bizarro or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:02

The house sequence, though, I think is great. It's it's me too. It's spooky, uh the the the pool is scary, him landing on the pool and seeing it all start to fold into the water, and then like my head starts going, is that how pool covers work? Uh I kinda think so. I think they like roll over. I don't think they can like but I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:22

As we've talked about Shane Black and Lethal Weapon, I think that has one of the great pool cover things of all time where it does something similar to that, where somebody falls in the middle and then the water collects into the middle.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:33

But that feels like a drowning hazard.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:35

Yeah, oh, it is 100%. I think you're supposed to roll out or roll off, is the strategy. But like he Bruce Willis, we believe, I think is pretty close to death here, or maybe did die for a moment and the kids save him. And a lot of this is working for me, aside the like I hate the the adjustment of speeds or whatever when Willis grabs him and like starts to choke him. I know I think it's supposed to convey some sort of superhumanness that just is kind of kooky to me, and the guy just like gleaking, spitting on the dead body. It's kind of it, I don't understand all of that, but then the fight following it up, it's like who cares? And like, why am I giving this air right now? Like the fight is so fucking cool, and he's like, you know, goes home, he's killed this guy, right? This is Zod in Superman. Like, he killed Zod in this case, right? Yeah, David Dunn has killed this guy.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:30

Sometimes you gotta kill him.

SPEAKER_04 1:54:31

Sometimes sometimes some people gotta die.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:33

They always show good guys like like letting the bad guy live, and then the bad guy always turns around and stabs him in the back.

SPEAKER_04 1:54:40

I like that this is pretty clear.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:42

And I'm like, some dudes just need to die. This dude, yeah, this dude probably just needed to die.

SPEAKER_04 1:54:47

Props to Snyder in Man of Steel. There's a a level of humanity that I enjoy where it's like, yeah, he broke that dude's fucking neck, whether I like it or not. It's a decision.

SPEAKER_05 1:54:56

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:54:57

I appreciate the shit out of that. Like, the also the the level again of like post this gun thing and whatever, because David Dunn has adopted or is celebrating who he really is, like, you know, this beautiful, effortless carry up the stairs of his wife and everything's fine, and like secret superhero dad, like newspaper thing, it's all so slow, and it's in the show don't tell of over-dramaticism. That's totally fucking working for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:27

Yeah. I I I want to point out too in that moment something you know we haven't talked about yet, but that I thought that the uh I thought that the soundtrack and score in this film is incredible. I agree with that, and uh in particularly like during that sequence, I thought it was so good.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:44

Um it's like I said something about Stevie Ray Vaughn, like everything feel it's like the these are two people that would be listening to that when they're doing that in the kitchen. Like it feel it all feels so real and lived in. The grounded moments are exceptionally grounded, and the moments that are not are not.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:07

So yeah, as we're kind of coming towards the end, I just want to say why I'm at three and a half, I think. And I I I want you all to so at the end of the movie when he shakes the hand of Mr. Glass and we get and we get the reveal that Mr. was behind all of these uh tragic events to kill all these people. Um the the like the the the like title sequence of telling us what happens afterwards it feels jarring. It pauses, it's just like mid-like David Dunn. Like, this isn't a true story, first off, so it feels very weird. Uh and also like it feels like a producer tag on to be like this is too ambiguous, I need to know what happens to them. I'm like, no, end it with him walking out of the room and him yelling, I'm just throwing ass. And and we're all we're all there. But those those things took me down half a point.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:01

This is part of why sorry, Stefan. So sorry, please.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:06

No, no, no. I was gonna say that's fair. I it almost feels like that very the the opening card and kind of the outro there are I agree with you. It feels like that could be the producer's involvement of uh I don't know if Weinstein was uh involved with this one, but it feels like that kind of thing where he's like, hey, we need to have this.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:25

Not according to the AI help, so we don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:29

Okay. So I don't know if it was just Sean Lawn like, yeah, we'll give you those, but the film is mine.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:34

You know, where does that come from? We have this really cool thing that is like the exhibition is finally happening at limited edition. It's shot well, the acting is good, or whatever. And then at a point, like Bruce Willis like rounds a corner and Samuel Jackson's like, by the way, I am a terrorist. Here are all the plans over here on the wall, just in case you wanted to see them. And then where does that fucking tack on come from? It feels like an add-in from the end of a true story movie. Yeah, it is so terrible, and everybody I I it's it should have ended on, and I hate rewriting other people's work is a movie that we've talked about, how good the writing is. Like, imagine David Dunn is the sole survivor in the air crash that Elijah Mr. Glass did. We know that guy's like it happened to be the train thing that worked out where there's a level of mystery. Because a plan would be itself. Right. But like I should have known why, David, because the kids they called me Mr. Glass, and David Dunn walks away, movie over. It's great. But they add this David Dunn led authorities to limited edition, where evidence of three acts of terrorism was quote unquote found right there. Leave this out entirely, or have this mentioned in exposition in glass. Like we we see Elijah in that institute. If this had been planned, I don't think we get that.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:55

It it yeah, it it it boggles my mind why it's in there. It's so upsetting to me.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:59

It's really, it's really strange. That is maybe enough. I I maybe I'm gonna go. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:07

Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm tempted to go. Okay, well, are we there yet?

SPEAKER_04 1:59:11

Are we I think we are, unless Stefan, you have anything else you'd like to note about this movie. Again, I think we all have issues with like kind of like the tonal juggle or how it goes from like this looks amazing, this sounds amazing, whatever, and then suddenly it's like David, this guy was a terrorist. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:28

I no, I agree. I think that I think that that's a fair enough reason to say I can't I can't justify giving it the extra point. And that makes sense to me.

SPEAKER_04 1:59:36

Okay, you're not gonna fight to give it an extra point either. You're gonna stay.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:39

I'm not gonna fight. I'm not gonna fight. I think that uh fair enough.

SPEAKER_04 1:59:43

Paul? You're at the four. I had a lot of fun talking about like how unintentionally funny this is and how intentionally funny the Sopranos is. Ben and listener, the Sopranos. I'm not they don't want me to push it. I'm not pushing it. Should I watch it on my refrigerator? Yeah, it looks great in vertical. You don't need what's on the sides, you need you need the ceiling and the floor. Uh I can't I can't give this movie a five, partly based on how much fun we had talking about the weirdness of this movie, even though it wants to exist, like clearly the movie wants to exist in a weird place. It's a fantasy movie. And it's as opposed to some other movies we've talked about about on this podcast. This does a fantastic job of being a grounded, realistic movie with really, really awesomely executed fantastic elements. That's really hard to do. Having some tonal slips is fine, having some kooky stuff is fine. Four still very high score.

SPEAKER_02 2:00:43

Stefan, thank you so much for bringing this movie back to me. I'm gonna go to four. I know that like that that like ending, I almost was like, that's what brought me to three and a half, but I think that there's just so much in this movie to appreciate, and um, I think four feels right. It doesn't feel right to give it a whole half point lower because of that, but I do hate that ending. I think it's fucking stupid.

SPEAKER_04 2:01:04

Um I mean, if someone were like, this was a five to me until the end, I'd be like, yeah, okay. And then it became a three.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:11

I'd be like, that's a fair point. Whatever you want to say. Stefan, please tell people where they can find you. Uh look for your stuff. Uh if they want to follow you, where can they do that?

SPEAKER_00 2:01:21

I'm on Instagram. Uh, you can get me at uh my Instagram is Stefan.vdg. Uh that's probably the easiest place to find me. Um and the film Simmer, like you mentioned, is on Amazon Prime. And stay tuned for one of us, which should uh hopefully find uh a home this uh late fall, early winter, and uh be available to watch around the globe.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:54

Amazing. Thank you again for joining us.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:57

This was thanks so much for having me guys. This was super fun.

SPEAKER_04 2:02:00

Please come back. We would love to have you back.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:02

Yeah, no, I'd love to do it. I'm I'm curious. Uh there was a couple other movies you guys had sent over that I'm kind of like, hey, like I'd I'd love to uh so I think we I think we should uh exchange the messages and try to run it back.

SPEAKER_04 2:02:14

I'll email you about this. We'll talk about this off mic a little bit. Thank you so much again for bringing this movie. This was so wildly fun. Well, that's the episode. We learned so much and ended up at a score of 444.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:26

Four an average of four. I want I'm curious how often does that happen?

SPEAKER_04 2:02:31

More than you might think. More than you think, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:02:34

The conversation leads a lot of people to a similar the triangle's the strongest pattern.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:39

Yeah. And even when we come on different sides of the spectrum, we usually come together a little bit more.

SPEAKER_04 2:02:45

Suicide.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:02:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:48

Ah, this is really fun re-watching this. Yeah. Not gonna lie. I was like, man.

SPEAKER_04 2:02:52

We're gonna lock you up for another movie. That that the verbal contract here is unc unbreakable. Our book end themes are by Jamie Henwood. What you've been doing and what are you watching are by Matthew Foskett. Fun fox lyric, fun facts lyrics are Chris Olds. Follow us at Run BMC at Paul ActsBadly. Follow Stefan.vdg on and you know, we're letterboxed to Instagram. You'll figure these things out. Check out our subscription channel, the complete review review, every episode, shelf help, all the stuff, film and equality always. Broom vroom.